Changing Equip. Type

[EatSleepFly]

Any clearance delivery people here?

Is it a problem for you if we change our equipment type when we call for clearance? We have three different types (SA-227, Be-99, and Be-1900) that routinely get changed up and fly each others' routes. The flight plans are center-stored for the type of a/c that the run is supposed to have. The controllers here don't like it when we call for clearance and ask them to change the type from say a Be-99 to a Metro, so for awhile we'd just refile anytime the type changed, but that gets to be a pain because often it's on short notice. Yesterday we got a memo saying that it's OK for us to do that, and we are supposed to note the time and get the initials of any controller that gives us trouble about it.

Any thoughts?

 

[DE727UPS]

Sounds like there is stuff going on behind the scenes to address the issue of it being a problem. It shouldn't be, it's part of their job. When I worked flight data at a tracon it was no big deal to amend the aircraft type.

When you say "the controllers don't like it", what do you mean? If they are busy, it's just one more thing for them to have to take care of. Are they telling you to contact FSS instead of doing it themselves? Are they telling you to refile with the company? Do they just sound pissed off?

You run into pissed off controllers sometimes, it's not an easy job nor is the FAA an easy place to work.

 

[Fox Xray]

I am FAR from a tower controller (I work at a center) but I will take a stab at this by providing some info until some of the tower folks can reply.

Part of the problem with having a controller change the type on a flight plan is we do not have access to the full flight plan. What I mean is there is other info included when you file the FP such as color of A/C, fuel on board, alternate airport, etc. I agree that this is not a major issue but the FAA does consider it in issue, that is part of the reason an air file (AFIL) is something to avoid if possible. When we type your FP into the computer it's a very basic FP to get you in the system and process through sectors on your route.

Another issue could be with routing... Jet vs. Prop, speed of A/C, requested altitude, etc. Your new route could be via a fix that has restrictions, be shut down due to SWAP.

I know in many towers that due to staffing clearance delivery is often combined with another position such as ground, if amending the type requires a new routing a call may need to be placed to center or approach control, these sound simple but have the potential to be a PITA.

Last I want to caution against getting into it with the controller and asking for operating initials. I have echoed this in past posts... I feel that an open frequency is not the place for pilots and controllers to call each other out. Both you and the controller are caught in the middle, your company is doing something that is aggravating the controller, whether this is just a personality thing or a procedural thing no one knows. The FAA is not an easy agency to deal with, I know that better then you can imagine. Even a situation where you might be right in calling out the controller could backfire for the company, being right is not always the best thing with the FAA.

IMHO the best way to handle this is a rep from your company should contact the facility manager, explain the situation and try and find a solution. The big theme in the FAA right now is we are a "service" provider... use that to your advantage.

Hope the info helped.

 

[EatSleepFly]

Thanks for the info. Fox and DE. I thought the blurb about getting initials was a little aggressive, which is why I posted this. I've had a couple of times where the controller wouldn't make the change and told me to call FSS, but most of the time they do it, although they're not usually happy about it even if it is pre-dawn and not too busy. Personally, I'm OK with refiling, but sometimes sitting on hold waiting for Lockheed Martin to wake up isn't an option.

So another question would be- would it "clog" the system if there was a flight plan stored for each type that might fly a given run (normally 2, maybe 3 in some cases), just using different callsigns? I know we do this with a couple, and it seems to make it easier. Although with ~12 planes going out at roughly the same time, that would be 20+ clearances popping up, with only 12 or so being used. Seems like that would be a pain too.

I guess I'm just wondering if there's a happy medium. It's not that we're too lazy to refile ourselves (at least most of us), but our dispatcher is usually too busy, we are busy babysitting loaders and fuelers (and by babysit, I DO mean babysit), doing W&B, hazmat paperwork, figuring out weather and whatnot at the new destination, etc., and it's often a last minute change.

 

[Fox Xray]

Me personally I don't think that changing the type is a big deal but I am not at all familiar with the clearance delivery position. As in any job there are people that are very inflexible, controllers are no exception, most are not but we have our share.

Your idea of filing multiple flight plans is not a bad idea, I have seen this done before, generally those who do either cancel the flight plans once they know what equipment is going or just let them time out in the system.

I don't know what company your work for but I still think the overall best way to handle this is for a member of the company to hold a meeting with the tower manager. "Users" meet with ATC all the time and to give the FAA a tiny shred of credit (it hurts to do this) they are pretty good to work with to solve situations such as yours.