CFI's BEING DISHONEST

Benji86

New Member
I'm curious about how many of ya'll have had an instructor that was less than honest with you about your training or costs, for example has anyone ever lied to you about requirements for ratings you were working on, so they could get paid, or get more hours. I have asked instructors certain questions about requirements for ratings to make sure that I understood them, only to be answered with something like "well you will have to make a dual cross country with someone so you can be assessed of your skills" (This was way after my PPL and Inst ratings and nothing was stated in the regs about this "requirement") It came across to me that they were trying to get time out of me. Has anyone else come across this type of behavior?
 

tgrayson

New Member
It came across to me that they were trying to get time out of me.
Some people interpret requirements such as those as "milking", but I suspect that in the vast majority of the cases they are mistaken. You may not see the usefulness of the requirement, but I suggest giving the instructor the benefit of the doubt as to his intentions, regardless of whether you choose to use his services.

From the instructor's point of view, just because you have PPL and instrument ratings doesn't have any implications for the skill you presently hold. If you lack some skills that should have been developed in earlier ratings, it stands to reason any training he provides might take longer.
 

ILS37R

Well-Known Member
Well, there's a few different things going on here.

Firstly, the requirements to get a rating are often less than the real-world averages. A good CFI will tell you both numbers when you ask, but even then there is no guarantee a given student will get done in X hours.

Secondly, many CFIs are working under the checkout requirements of their employer, which are often in addition to pure hours and ratings if you want to take a plane solo.

Thirdly, to be an effective teacher, a CFI needs to know your strengths and weaknesses as a pilot, as well as your general habits and attitude. It's hard to get a full sense of a student without flying with them. Different CFIs will be looking for different things and want different demonstrations of experience.

All that said, there are instructors out there who are simply jerks that want to get maximum money from you and maximum hours in their logbook. Your job as a potential customer is to ask questions about your course of training, the reasons behind their requirements and, if you don't like what you hear, take your business elsewhere.

Most of the instructors I know are honest, hard-working people who want nothing more than to give you the best value for your training dollar. Give the instructor the benefit of the doubt, but never forget that this is a business. In particular, watch out for slick marketing. If a flight school has a full-time admissions staff, be especially wary.
 

HOTDOG

New Member
I once had a CFI have me fly about 50 NM to a park where his family was camping, so he could say "my airplane" and circle low over his wife and kid and have them wave at him while he was on his cell phone talking to them. This was during my supposed bi-annual flight review.
 

gtpilot

Well-Known Member
It would help if you were more specific - are you going for an additional rating or are you trying to do a flight review? If you are going for a commercial rating, you probably will be doing a dual x-c. If you're doing a flight review but it's been a while since you've flown, an x-c departure might be appropriate or even a short x-c with maneuvers mixed in.

As for some CFIs being dishonest, there are people like that in every walk of life and there are a few out there who do try to milk the student. My answer to that is know the PTS and part 61 requirements when you go for ratings. Also, understand that prior instruction will not always be 100% acceptable to a new instructor who has never evaluated you in a particular area and therefore they may be reluctant to sign you off until you have demonstrated proficiency.
 

Benji86

New Member
"You may not see the usefulness of the requirement, but I suggest giving the instructor the benefit of the doubt as to his intentions, regardless of whether you choose to use his services.

From the instructor's point of view, just because you have PPL and instrument ratings doesn't have any implications for the skill you presently hold. If you lack some skills that should have been developed in earlier ratings, it stands to reason any training he provides might take longer."

I totally agree with an assessment, but I was asking the instructor about the requirements for a commercial rating, and he threw out a dual cross country as being one of them. Maybe he had gotten confused or something, but earlier in my training I had also come across an instructor who.. well he was really looking out only for #1.. and I was told that by other instructors that I respected. It made me a little more wary of what instructors say and do. I just learned to be cautious and to double check what I am being told! (I guess thats a good trait right?)
 

gtpilot

Well-Known Member
Well, there's a few different things going on here.

Firstly, the requirements to get a rating are often less than the real-world averages. A good CFI will tell you both numbers when you ask, but even then there is no guarantee a given student will get done in X hours.

Secondly, many CFIs are working under the checkout requirements of their employer, which are often in addition to pure hours and ratings if you want to take a plane solo.

Thirdly, to be an effective teacher, a CFI needs to know your strengths and weaknesses as a pilot, as well as your general habits and attitude. It's hard to get a full sense of a student without flying with them. Different CFIs will be looking for different things and want different demonstrations of experience.

All that said, there are instructors out there who are simply jerks that want to get maximum money from you and maximum hours in their logbook. Your job as a potential customer is to ask questions about your course of training, the reasons behind their requirements and, if you don't like what you hear, take your business elsewhere.

Most of the instructors I know are honest, hard-working people who want nothing more than to give you the best value for your training dollar. Give the instructor the benefit of the doubt, but never forget that this is a business. In particular, watch out for slick marketing. If a flight school has a full-time admissions staff, be especially wary.
:yeahthat: Well said.
 

Benji86

New Member
Im not trying to down flight instructors, I have the utmost respect for them, to fly with people everyday who are practically strangers, and answer every question. I think they are the bed rock of aviation, they shape future pilots and their habits. Unfortunately I am a bit of an idealist, and frown upon anyone who may take advantage of others.
 

gtpilot

Well-Known Member
requirements for a commercial rating, and he threw out a dual cross country as being one of them. Maybe he had gotten confused or something
Part 61.129 Aeronautical experience
(a)SE airplane
(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) that includes -
(iii) One xc flight of at least 2 hours...day VFR
(iv) One xc flight of at least 2 hours...night VFR
 

tgrayson

New Member
he threw out a dual cross country as being one of them.
A dual cross country is a requirement for a Commercial certificate; in fact, two of them.

I agree you should check out the statements made by a CFI; what I'm suggesting is to put deception far down on the list of possibilities when confronting statements made by an instructor. If the statements are wrong, more than likely he's simply mistaken.
 

Benji86

New Member
See I have gone and made an *ss of myself, I have looked at that reg 50 times and now it makes sense to me! What a fool I am!
 

Benji86

New Member
Just forget this whole thread now! :buck: In all seriousness though early on in my training I came across several instructors who were less than interested in my training and I admit that I have been a bit guarded since then.
 

Number1atNumber2

Tries to keep it fun.
Don't worry man, I think EVERYONE has a few stories of themselves doing something totally embarrassing. This industry has a nice habit of putting one in his place when the ego gets a bit big. :)

To answer your original posting, yeah I had a CFI that I thought was being less than honest at times. Turns out I wasn't the only student of his that felt that way, and it ended up getting his superiors involved.

Best thing you can do for yourself is learn what the regs and PTS require for the certificate/rating you're going after, that way you know for sure what's expected of you. There are CFIs out there that take advantage of students, just as there are CFIs that force a few more flights on the student for the student's own good.
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
Thanks for all the comments and serving me a slice of "pull your head out!"

Like tgrayson said, give them the benefit of the doubt and don't be afraid to ask questions. You should have addressed this with the instructor, and I am sure he would have been glad to show you that reg.
 
Top