CFI

FlyBoyJae

FlyBoyJae

New Member
i started flying with a new CFI at a different school this past weekend...and i couldn't be happier...first of all, he is prepared for the lessons and he only charges for the actual hour that he teaches...my old CFI used to charge me from "hi" to "bye"...i was charged for those times when i was out doing preflight alone and stuff...but this new CFI doesn't do that..he said "why should i charge you when i don't teach anything to you?"

How does your CFI charge you, those of you who are student pilots? I used to pay about $70~$90 for instruction fees but now I am spending around $50~$80.

I was completely surprised that this new CFI charges so cost-effectively.

oh and why did i switch school/CFI? this CFI started coming to "Teach" unprepared, didn't say much while flying looking out the window, started laughing at me when i made mistakes (he would shake his head with a grin and have this "how can you do that?" look on his face, that made me a bit nervos and perform worse)...etc...oh AND he charged me for all those minutes I was out alone doing preflight and towing the plane back in the lot...
 
my cfi only charges for the time on the hobs and he only charges $15 an hour so its a pretty good deal, but on the other hand he only does it part time.
 
I charge my students based on what they get out of me. Unless I'm in the airplane with you and the engine is running, or we're actually discussing something related to your training, I don't charge.
 
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I charge my students based on what they get out of me.

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And its usually not a whole lot
grin.gif
 
Why should the student not pay for the entire time they scheduled a CFI? They have to be there for that student for that time period, and they are (or should be) doing things for that student in that time period.

If the student doesn't want to pay for CFI time while they preflight, then they should get there early and have the preflight done by the time the scheduled lesson starts.

CFIs need to stop selling themselves short. You're not the bottom of the food chain, you're the top. If it weren't for you there would be no airline pilots, no corporate pilots, no bush pilots. It's your signature that pilots need, your endorsement to their knowledge and skill level. If all the CFIs went on strike, the aviation world would come to a screaming halt pretty damn quick.

Yes, it's expensive to learn how to fly. Realize that and accept it. Quality instructors deserve quality compensation for their hard work.
 
The standard I was used to and continued on when I started to instruct was pay for the Hobbs time and any pre/post flight discussions reguarding training.

A typical 1 hour training flight would be billed as roughly 1.3 hours of instructing time. I normally spend 10-15 mintues preflight talking about what we're going to be doing and answering any questions. Then about 5-10 minutes more after the flight talking about the day and pre-teaching any new items for the next flight.

As for the billing for a preflight done by the student alone... it's not really billed. There is typically a 2 hour block set aside for the airplane, so if we fly for an 1 hour, pre and post brief for .3... that leaves .7 for the student to preflight, grab a soda, go to the john and whatever else needed to be done.
 
The flight school where I finished my PPL had a policy that allowed the CFI to charge 0.2 hours per flight for pre-and post-flight briefings. This was more than sufficient, but my instructor rarely even charged me for this, especially once I got closer to my checkride and our briefings were completed during taxi back to the hangar.

I've heard horror stories about instructors like the one you just left so good job on making the call to switch!
 
I must be one of the "horror" CFI's!

I USED to whittle away the time I charged.. so conservatively that after a full day of back-to-back lessons, I was only charging a portion of it. Now, I charge the "hi to bye" stuff. Sorry folks. If I schedule back-to-back students from 8AM to 4PM.. then I just made an 8 hour day for myself and I am going to get paid for it. My students are GLAD to go pre-flight by themselves. If I go with them, it takes longer.

One thing I do NOT charge for is if we fly a XC to another airport and, say.. have lunch or go look at some new airplanes that are tied up.. you know, loitering to kill som etime as arelaxation break. I make this back in the end by taking my per-diem off my taxes
smile.gif


as an post-mortem to the evil horror of being a hi-to-bye CFI, most of my work in the past 6 months has been a repeat student or a referral. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
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I must be one of the "horror" CFI's!

I USED to whittle away the time I charged.. so conservatively that after a full day of back-to-back lessons, I was only charging a portion of it. Now, I charge the "hi to bye" stuff. Sorry folks. If I schedule back-to-back students from 8AM to 4PM.. then I just made an 8 hour day for myself and I am going to get paid for it. My students are GLAD to go pre-flight by themselves. If I go with them, it takes longer.

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I assume you inform your students about this 'policy'. If I was one of your students, I'd book the plane for 1 1/2 hours and you for the 1 hr to get you in the right seat for the time I need you. That way, you could overlap a bit and you could jump out of one plane and into another and therefore avoid the 'hi and bye' time.

Or, maybe I'd specify that you not speak (or show up for that matter) until I"m ready to turn the key or hit the starter...

[ QUOTE ]

One thing I do NOT charge for is if we fly a XC to another airport and, say.. have lunch or go look at some new airplanes that are tied up.. you know, loitering to kill som etime as arelaxation break. I make this back in the end by taking my per-diem off my taxes
smile.gif


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You are so generous. Can I call you Robin?
 
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I assume you inform your students about this 'policy'. If I was one of your students, I'd book the plane for 1 1/2 hours and you for the 1 hr to get you in the right seat for the time I need you. That way, you could overlap a bit and you could jump out of one plane and into another and therefore avoid the 'hi and bye' time.


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That's the idea.

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Or, maybe I'd specify that you not speak (or show up for that matter) until I"m ready to turn the key or hit the starter...


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Your choice, but it's also your loss. Learning to fly is much, much more than flying an airplane. You're going to have to devote some time (and money) outside of the airplane. You don't want to pay for that time outside the airplane (which includes pre/post-flight briefings and other sessions that are not "sit in a classroom ground"), then you can go find an instructor who won't charge you for it. Bear in mind that CFIs who devalue their time in such a way generally provide lower quality instruction.

Oh, and a note to those of you who will jump on "CFIs who devalue their time in such a way generally provide lower quality instruction." Note the generally in the sentance. There are always exceptions, but they are not the rule.
 
I personally don't charge for a student out pre-flighting by themselves but I never teach a lesson that does not include at minimum .5 pre brief and a .5 post brief.
How can weather, weight and balance, performance, notams, flight objectives, be discussed in any time less than 1/2 hour before a flight? The airplane is a horrible classroom these iteams need to be covered pre-flight and critiqued post flight. A CFI should be payed for this service. If your pre and post flight briefs amount to a total of .3 or 18 minutes your either giving away time or providing substandard instruction.
 
When I CFIed I was always told by my boss to start my watch when the student shows up and stop it when I finished debrief and filling out the paperwork. It usually ended up that the minimum I would bill in addition to the hobbs time is .5. I figured that its impossible to do a pre and post flight briefing in less than 30 min unless its a commercial student. I liked the stopwatch method because it was a fair way to both me and the student. Plus if the student objected to what I was billing I was always willing to discuss.
 
All the students griping about the cost of their CFI's need to keep this in mind when they are the CFI's and making peanuts. You can be holier than thou now, but write us in a year or two when you're in our shoes. I am there almost all day and only get paid for the time we are scheduled. If you are not going to show up early, want to gossip, take your time pre-flighting, and don't study, guess what, you get charged. If you know your stuff, the preflight brief goes well (you know what your doing that day), and you get the airplane preflighted before I am there, then great you will save money. I will not extend a lesson out for 2 to 2 1/2 hours like my school requires if there's no reason and the lesson goes well, but, guess what, 95% of the students aren't like that, so I feel no sympathy.

I know what it's like to pay all the money, but I was prepared and didn't waste time when I was learning. As a student, you should be very scared about CFI's cheapening themselves because guess what they are doing to your industry for your future...you'll be lucky if you can find a place that will let you charge for your time and effort.

One more note, if you think that your CFI is not spending enough quality time with you, please rethink that. Unless your instructor really isn't worth his weight, he is spending more time thinking about how to get you over hurdles, reading magazines to keep current, writing notes for ground school, keeping himself current, etc. You only see the time he's with you, but I know for a fact I spend way too much time thinking about and preparing for students' lessons to be told I don't earn my money.

Just a lowly CFI's opinion.

After re-reading my post, I realize I make it sound like there are only male CFI's. There are some great female instructors out there, so please take the male only stance out of the post. I am all for instructors in general.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Why should the student not pay for the entire time they scheduled a CFI? They have to be there for that student for that time period, and they are (or should be) doing things for that student in that time period.

If the student doesn't want to pay for CFI time while they preflight, then they should get there early and have the preflight done by the time the scheduled lesson starts.

CFIs need to stop selling themselves short. You're not the bottom of the food chain, you're the top. If it weren't for you there would be no airline pilots, no corporate pilots, no bush pilots. It's your signature that pilots need, your endorsement to their knowledge and skill level. If all the CFIs went on strike, the aviation world would come to a screaming halt pretty damn quick.

Yes, it's expensive to learn how to fly. Realize that and accept it. Quality instructors deserve quality compensation for their hard work.

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with all due respect i agree with you. I was only referring to this specific CFI who didn't really teach me anything while I was there. I really won't mind paying whatever the amount for a "good" instruction.
grin.gif
 
When I was a CFI, we would sit down off the clock and talk about expectations. Things like us both showing up on time, prepared to learn/teach and performance goals. Plus, I was never afraid to charge for my services because that's actually part of the learning process.

If a student comes unprepared to learn the days lesson and I've got to spend an extra long ground session before he hops in the airplane, he can either come back another day prepared (and be charged a no-show fee), or we can review the material (and be charged a ground instruction rate).

When you let your students know up front that when they walk thru the front door that you expect them to arrive prepared, it actually saves the CFI time and the student money.

But basically, if he expects to solo in 10 hours and be performing his 39.9999th hour the day before his private pilot checkride (and on budget) he'd better arrive fully prepared daily and ready for action.
 
i hope i didn't offend any CFI's out there. Again, I was only trying to mention that this specific CFI was doing a poor job when it comes to teaching and i didn't wanna pay to learn nothing.

i think the part of the problem was that i am always well prepared. recently, he started to assume things and just expected me to know things without his telling me. when i would ask something, he would respond, "we will talk about it after we get back" and we 'never' did. by the time we get back, other people are waiting so i had to get the hell outta there!! and he would talk about some funny movie that he watched...it is cool to be friendly but when i am there i wanna learn!

i really feel that CFI's are not compensated enough. i used to send my old CFI links to joblinks with the airliners, regional air, etc...whenever i would find one trying to help him find a better paying job.

well bottom line, i wanted to let other students aware of the problem that i had so that they can reflect on their own experience.
 
I was just relaying a little experience. Yup, I'd have changed CFI's as well.
 
FlyBoyJae,

Sorry to jump on you on that one, but a very tender subject for most CFI's I know, and myself in particular. I know there are good and bad instructors and good and bad students, but when I hear students saying they don't feel their instructors are worth their money, then get a different instructor (which I think you did the right thing), but don't say that an instructor shouldn't get paid for his/her time. If you are scheduled for 2 hours, be early, preflight the airplane when it's ready and be ready to go at the appropriate time. If you get everything done and both you and the instructor feel you've met the learning objectives, then good on ya and keep pressing on.

I guess I'm just a little disgruntled since my students don't come as prepared as I'd like for them to. Partly my fault, but when the bill comes, I don't feel guilty at all when they and I both know they haven't studied and aren't prepared.

Keep training and stay in the books and you'll do fine. Glad to hear you're doing better with your new instructor.
 
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