CFI Wages

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PurduePilot

New Member
Dear all:

I'm a flight instructor at a small airport in Indianapolis. The airport and flight school name will be withheld to "protect the innocent."

I have a question regarding our work rules and wages. I am required to be present at the flight school from about 9-5pm (although now they want me in from 8am-8pm), 5 days a week. I have to come in regardless if I have a student or not. If I don't have students that day or I don't have students until later in the day then obviously I'm sitting around doing just about nothing. That's not that bad, I'll admit... who wouldn't want a job like that?

At any rate here's how I'm compensated for my time... I get paid a flat salary of $50.00/week. Then I get paid $14.00/flight hour on top of that. If my flight only lasted 1.6 hours then it's $14.00 x 1.6 = $22.4.

By my math that $50/week works out to roughly $10/day, which is less than minimum wage for the hours I put in this job.

My question is: is this even legal?
 
you would only need to be compensated if you make less than min wage for the course of your payperiod. for example, you work 2 weeks, 80 hours. if min wage is $5.25, then your pay should be minimum of $420. Take out the $50/week salary and you're lookig at $320. Divide that by $14/hr and of that 80 hour week, 22.85 hours must be flying hours or ground if you get $14/hr ground.
 
very few places pay you when you're on the ground. you're REQUIRED to be there? hmm. i dotn nkow. Everyone hangs around skymates when they arent flying.... but they all have fun and joke around and stuff....


interesting...
 
Yes I am required to be at the flight school regardless if I have a student or not.

I am salaried at $50/week, which works out to be $10/day. If I have no students I only make the $10/day. For that I have answer phones, bill students, take care of office work, and clean airplanes.

I believe that this is contrary to federal and state labor laws which state that as an "nonexempt employee" (whatever that is) I am entitled to a salary of $455/week or to be compensated via an hourly minimum wage (or above). Since I am neither getting paid the proper salary or minimum wage, I believe this to be contrary to the law.

I do get paid for my flight time on top of the $50/week. If I were to lodge a complaint with the DOL would I have a leg to stand on?
 
I'd call the DOL to be sure, you may be legally entitled to minimum wage pay. Are you contract labor? Rules may be different.
On the other hand, you have a guaranteed $50 a week. That's more than I had some weeks, and some months duing the winter got pretty rough rent- and creditor-wise. $200 a month guaranteed is not great, but at least you can count on it.
 
I will ask my wife who is an HR professional. I would think that your duties wouldn't place you in the exempt catagory and you should be getting paid an hourly rate for all time you are required to be at your place of employment. If they want you to be a receptionist, they should be paying you to be a receptionist when you are doing that.
 
I think the key word here is $50 "SALARY" per week

If you are on salary, minimum wage requirements do not exist.
 
SIUav8er said:
I think the key word here is $50 "SALARY" per week

If you are on salary, minimum wage requirements do not exist.
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However, if you read the document that I provided a link for, you find that it says, "TO QUALIFY FOR AN EXEMPTION, EMPLOYEES MUST GENERALLY MEET CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS REGARDING THEIR JOB DUTIES AND BE PAID ON A SALARY AT NOT LESS THAN $455 PER WEEK..."

Since I only see $50 per week and I am a nonexempt employee that is contrary to the law. I should see $455/week if I were getting a legal salary.

I think it also must be said that as a flight instructor I am provided with no health, dental or other insurance (other than the coverage they provide everyone for hull damage) or benefits.
 
i believe there was a thread about 3 months ago on 1099 employees vs. w-2. basically if the school is your primary employment then you are not an independent contractor and they are subjected to employer laws
 
My first CFI job was worse. Pretty much the same deal, but I didn't get the $50, the pay was $10/hr and I had to be there 6 days a week. And, no, I didn't have to walk through snow to get there, but I did have to go out and de-ice the airplanes with isopropyl alcohol. Can't fly em if they're not clean right? What a joke. And the best part was when I left to start working at FlightSafety, the owner said, "Well, I can't say that I'm not surprised. If all you want to do is become an hour building • then go ahead, but if you really want to learn how to fly, you'd stick around and start doing our 135 stuff." Whatever.

The ultimate irony was that when I started at Eagle, who do I see? Yep, the school went T.U. and he was now in groundschool two weeks ahead of me at AE. It could only have been better if I had started 2 weeks before him, but still pretty sweet.

edit: I suppose that I should add that I wasn't really required to be there, but the implication was that if you weren't there and answering the phones you wouldn't get any students...
 
Basically, school is primary employer... I'm not a contract employee. I'm not complaining about the low wages, I'm complaining about the illegal wages.

I wouldn't be here if I were getting paid $5.25/hour here. I'd complain about the low wages, but that's legal.

What I'm getting paid is illegal. I just wanted to know that before I went to the DOL and it seems as if I do have a case here.

Thanks for you help guys!
 
PurduePilot said:
What I'm getting paid is illegal. I just wanted to know that before I went to the DOL and it seems as if I do have a case here.
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Of course it's illegal. It's nothing new for CFI's!

I worked at a school in northern NJ and not only was I required to be there from 8 AM to 6 PM 5 days a week, if I wasn't flying I had to answer phones , do scheduling, etc. etc. I was paid ZERO dollars for that time. Not only that, but I had to come in at 7 AM two days a week and "open", checking oil, filling up planes, etc. I was NOT a 1099 employee.

OH! The best part - in the winter time I had to shovel the airplanes out of the snow! Paid? NOPE!! If we didn't shovel, we didn't fly, and we didn't earn any money. Some incentive, huh?

Instructors previous to me had called the DOL, they came and investigated, etc. NOTHING ever came of it, all that happened was the offending instuctors left and most likely received some pretty bad recommendations from said employer. I left the school after 4 months - the 'charter department' wasn't worth waiting for, as the other instructors that had been waiting for a slot had over 2500 dual given - and the company hired almost all the pilots from the outside. Not to mention he made one pay for their lear SIC stuff. The owners used this as carrot to dangle in front of the CFI's - in fact one is on this board convinced he will make it into charter.

You aren't the only one, trust me. If you go to the DOL, they most likely WILL NOT DO ANYTHING. What happens when an employer calls your previous (current) employer? What will they say about you? Nobody likes a snitch...

This is probably one of the times to STFU and either move on quietly or put up with it, IMO.
 
Question:

why is it that flight instructor's are paid in such a manner? For the responsibility of training people to fly aircraft, it seems a little bit rediculous.

I think it is the responsibility of all flight instructors to demand better pay for what they are doing. If you dont like the pay you are getting as a CFI, dont fly...work somewhere else...eventually if enough instructors do this, the flight training industry will have to adjust and pay insturctors more. The same applies to the regional airlines....if enough pilots demand more money for the work they do, the industry will have to change. I am not suggesting a strike as a CFI or airline pilot, just dont give in to low wages just because you want that dream job flying an airplane.
 
cessnapilot said:
I think it is the responsibility of all flight instructors to demand better pay for what they are doing. If you dont like the pay you are getting as a CFI, dont fly...work somewhere else...eventually if enough instructors do this, the flight training industry will have to adjust and pay insturctors more. The same applies to the regional airlines....if enough pilots demand more money for the work they do, the industry will have to change. I am not suggesting a strike as a CFI or airline pilot, just dont give in to low wages just because you want that dream job flying an airplane.
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Communism works well on paper too.

Not to be an •. Your suggestion works well on paper, but the problem is that pilots/CFIs "love to fly" which is the biggest disservice one can do to himself. Think about it this way. If you're going to sell something at a garage sale and someone is fawning over how they "must" have something, you're going to charge them more, right? Same thing in reverse for wages. As long as people are going to continue to work as CFIs for $7 an hour (Purdue!), then it's bound to happen.
 
I looked into this because I worked and then managed at a flight school with a similar arrangement. The minimum wage is based upon your weekly compensation, so you can't arbitrarily pick a period and figure out if you were paid minimum wage (and your employer can't either).

What you were PAID is used to determine if you met the minimum wage requirement - so forget the $50 and salary issue, that's all a red hering, the question is your total compensation per week. Divide it by the number of hours you were REQUIRED to be at work and see if it meets the minimum wage standard. Remember - your state may have a different minimum wage so make sure to check that as well.

If you are not making minimum wage you can report this to the Labor Department, who will ride like a knight in shining armor to your protection. Sadly, however, they will not help you find another job, because you will surely need one (and I'm not saying that's fair, I'm just saying it is).

Yeh it's wrong, it's immoral, it's unethical, it's illegal, but that's America for you.

PS - for those wondering, we never paid our CFI's less than minimum wage, we got mighty close a few times, but there you go......
 
OK then, I'm starting a union for CFI's. All members will pay dues, of course, but how else are we going to pay for the lawyers? Why do we need lawyers? to sue flight schools who illegally fire thier workers for demanding thier legally owed wage. I'm not a CFI anymore, but I love fighting the good fight.
Who's with me?
 
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