CFI Program Las Vegas

AV8TOR

AV8TOR

New Member
I'm about to go to CFI School in Las Vegas on the 15th, and trying to get ready. I got the email from Frank on what to bring.

Is there anything else anyone would have brought? I've read in previous posts that they would bring a Laptop which I'm bringing. But is there anything else?

also what is the dress code? I've got the ATP shirt, and it was good for the first few weeks, now it shrunk and it's like a belly shirt, it's very short.

I have 2 polo shirts, but is there a certain way to dress?

Any last minute info before I go? I've been trying to study the CFI Oral Guide Chapter 1 and 2...anything else?

Thanks for the info
 
AV8TOR said:
also what is the dress code? I've got the ATP shirt, and it was good for the first few weeks, now it shrunk and it's like a belly shirt, it's very short.

I have 2 polo shirts, but is there a certain way to dress?

Any last minute info before I go? I've been trying to study the CFI Oral Guide Chapter 1 and 2...anything else?

Thanks for the info
Click to expand...

No dress code. It's starting to get warm down in Vegas, so shorts/t-shirt will do. Just wear something nice for the checkrides. Good luck and have fun!
 
I did keep a blog/gouge as best as I could on my ATP experience. If you have any questions, let me know.
 
Hey thanks again Capt Bob, it was really helpful...sounds like Frank gets you pretty much ready for the inital. But like every other student, I never feel prepared, until I'm done and the DE says I past.

Thanks for the Blog mlm3789 it was very helpful and gave me an idea of what to expect.

As far as your oral what kind of questions were you asked? Like I said i'm studing chapter 1 & 2 in the CFI Oral Prep trying to memorize the terms from the FOI.

I've also heard that you can refer to your FAR/AIM, did you look up any answers or have to refer to it?

Thanks again everyone
 
Know the FOI COLD. If you have it memorized in advance you won't have to be stressed out about finding time to memorize it between ground school, homework, eating and sleeping. There is very liitle extra time during the first 3 or 4 days so know the FOI before you even get there. If your checkride is scheduled for Monday (day 7) like mine was you can get a little stressed out. I had a list of things I wanted to re-review before my checkride and it didn't help having FOI on the list too.

The way the timing worked out on getting my commerical multi I ended up having less time to study FOI in advance than I expected. It all worked out though... I got it loaded into the brain at the last minute. I would have liked having a Tuesday checkride instead of being the first on Monday, however, if I had the FOI memorized it wouldn't have been as stressful or felt too fast. I was really wishing I had a Tuesday checkride.

Don't let this post cause you stress about CFI school. The first 3 days are very busy, but there is nothing wrong with that. For me the single engine training was all done in about 32 hours because the examiner they use goes home on Thursdays. Now that was stressful, but it worked out fine.

On the single engine maneuvers, don't rush them. Particularly the lazy eights... at the 90' point where the nose should be dropping through the horizon you should not be using the elevator to ensure that it drops through the horizon- it should be naturally dropping through the horizon on its own due to the fact that you are 7 or 10 kts above stall and have bled off all the excess energy, leaving the nose to naturally come down.

On steep turns in the Seminole, I don't know why they are easy in both directions from the left seat, but in the right seat the ones to the right are harder... the instructor agreed with me on this. BUT, if you only have 5 hours in the Seminole because you are a career pilot choose your strategy at the begining and stick with it. What I mean is, choose to use trim or choose to use two hands, but don't waste your time practicing one handed if it is difficult. The PTS doesn't say that you can't use two hands so you can use two hands.

In the oral you definitely refer to the FARs for numerous things.. even though you may have them memorized Frank stresses saying, " I'm quite certain it is ......., but I'm going to verify it with the FARs" because you are allowed to use references if you need them... so why risk pinking yourself. But the reality is that this is not rocket science and you don't NEED look everything up if you KNOW you know it! Be comfortable with the FARs and looking thigs up in them. Use the contents at the begining of each part and use the contents of the PTSs intead of flipping through the pages aimlessly. In my FAR I highlighted all the most important stuff in yellow and then highlighted in pink every single time the word "endorsement" was used in the FARs. That made things really easy.

Frank will give you two really handy reference/cheat sheets to use for endorsements too. The sheet with the smallest font needs one correction: line 4 says "Subsequent 90 end"- change that to read " Student Pilot Logbook Endorsement". I had no problem flying with Frank, so don't worry about him. He is cool if you don't annoy him- so don't be one of the few guys who does. If you hear negative things about Frank just dismiss it because it has no bearing on how he will treat you if you are ON TIME to fly with him (20 minutes early) and you are a competent pilot (which we all should be, being commercial pilots).

On page 11 of AC61-65E #37 the FARs referenced " 61.35(a)(1), 61.103(d)..." ONLY apply to the knowledge test. The third one " 61.105" only applies to the Practical test. Frank will tell you this in class, just make sure you write it down... on the 61-65E. Ther reality is that it is the FAA's mistake and the examiner doesn't know or care about this inconsistency. Also he says that "P6" on a metar does not mean "Plus", that it means "Prevailing". That is wrong if you consult the AIM- it is "plus". Frank's ground school is really great and tells you CLOSE TO everything you need to know. You still have to self study of course. Read and use the pilot's guide of aeronautical knowledge! Its great!

Print out AC 61-65E before you get there. I was one of only two who had and for everyone else it was yet another thing to worry about getting done.

Once you've had the second day of class, then make sure you know all the endorsements that can be given to a student pilot, know all the endorsements that must be given to a Private Pilot for your oral.

At ATP the pilot you become entirely depends on your dedication to self-study in order to get your knowledge as good as you possilby can. Don't watch TV etc... when you could be studying and the whole experience will be easy- though it will be stressful at times. You may even teach your examiner something about multiengine aerodynamics in the oral!

Also, when Frank tells you the "purposes" write them down FAST so you have them. That's one thing that I didn't get all of it scribled down and then had to mine the Aircraft Flying Handbook for them in the mad dash to the Monday checkride. There is no "purpose" or discussion of the drag demo in the AFH so if you get that lesson plan assignment you will find it in the PTS. " To show the effect of various configurations AND AIRSPEEDS on performance with an engine inoperative" or words to that effect.

Have the CFI pretest done or don't even get on the plane to Vegas. There were a couple middle-aged guys who were not ATP career pilot students who did not have it completed. They answered wrong in the class and got themselves on Frank's radar (rightfully so, since his name is on the line when it comes to him signing you off). They also dropped out.

Work hard. Don't worry. Frank's class prepares you well, along with your self-study.
 
Thanks Matt777! awesome gouge for CFI school in Vegas! Im starting the ACPP in RAL on monday, so I will be doing CFI school in Vegas.
 
Very cool! Take the initiative to study those books they give you and you'll be a great pilot. The FAA book, " Pilot's handbook of aeronautical knowledge" is great! My training partner and I were so engrossed in the Jeppesen Instrument Commercial Manual for at least the first month we hadn't even looked at the FAA book to see how good it was.

You can read the Seminole suppliment some more this weekend if you want to get ahead of the game. You know... PAST, Engine failure checklist, and SMACFUMG- but I prefer SMACFLU because I don't like having two "M"s and I like having the one and only factor that reduces VMC, "Up to 5 degrees of bank into the operating engine" to be on the end, not mixed in with the rest:
Std Temp @ Sea Level
Max power on operating engine
Aft CG
Critical engine's prop windmilling
Flaps up, Gear Up (technically flaps in takeoff position)
Lightest weight (this is my substitute for "Most Unfavorable Weight")
Up to 5 degrees of bank into the operating engine

I combine flaps up and gear up into one because once you have the engine failure checklist memorized it will be easy to remember " flaps up, gear up" as one item because all you are going to be thinking about for the next 3 months is the engine failure checklist and " flaps up, gear up" is part of it.

Here's a tip: Don't rush when you do the engine-out checklist.
"Mixtures, Props, Throttles, Flaps Up, Gear Up" - if you ever have the tendency to rush when you are being tested then take a millisecond long mental pause so that you don't rush into doing the wrong thing- remember no one is timing you and it's not a race! ... and then continue on with the rest of the checklist.

Have fun!

And while I'm at it, TOMATO FLAMES sucks too :) It's just too random, illogical and mixed up for me!
ATACFOOTSMEL is much better! :)
ATACFOOTSMELA with the anti-collision light.

Yes, I am nuts.
 
As other have said it's hot, bring shorts to fly in. Showing up for the checkride in a collared shirt is good.

As far as what to bring, the usual FAA books and PTS. By the time you get to Vegas you should know the Seminole maneuvers and weights/speeds/limitations, but know the maneuvers down cold. Frank does an excellent job of prepping you for the initial, but doesn't always have time to step through each maneuver. That is left to the CFIs who have even less time. I'd suggest staying late after class every day (or go home & come back) to study and practice teaching one another, to refine the process. And the CFI pre-test absolutely must be done before showing up, or Frank might blow a fuse.

A laptop is nice but there are computers there for you to use. Sunglasses, Gatorade, and your own IFR hood will make life easier. Dont' forget the flashlight, for those 3AM pre-flights.
 
so I just finished up 32 hours with the infamous "frank" that guy is a character, he is very smart and definatly knows his stuff. I can give him that. But now i know what people talk about with his cool black and red jump suit. all he needs know is to zip down his jacket and put a couple gold chains on him and he'll be Mr. Vegas.

The first week went by really fast, maybe because there is just so much info that he goes over, you really don't have time to absorb it, your doing homework then reveiwing what he went over, and studing FOI knowledge.

But honestly a lot of the stuff is really private pilot knowledge. I was like Oh yeah I remember that from my private days, (sooo long again 2002, UGH)

It does help if you do already know the FOI stuff before you come, i learned most of it. It will also help to if you know the manuvers before hand and the purpose before you come that will only make it easier. We are waiting for the a/c to come back so we can dry fly later tonite.

the thing that I still can't get down, which i knew it was going to be hard are those stupid steep turns. I'm too fixated on the instruments and i need to break that habit really quick. I've got a good sense of talking about what i'm doing and the set up. but it's just getting them down to PTS standards.

So i fly again on monday, we shall see. We are all killing ourselfs and reviewing everything to be able to teach a ground lesson and aerodynamics. for the oral. It honestly wouldn't hurt to brush up on your private pilot knowledge as well, cloud clearance, entry into airspace, basic aerodynamics, SMACFUM, PAST, critical eng, etc
 
AV8TOR said:
... the thing that I still can't get down, which i knew it was going to be hard are those stupid steep turns. I'm too fixated on the instruments and i need to break that habit really quick. I've got a good sense of talking about what i'm doing and the set up. but it's just getting them down to PTS standards.

So i fly again on monday, we shall see. We are all killing ourselfs and reviewing everything to be able to teach a ground lesson and aerodynamics. for the oral. It honestly wouldn't hurt to brush up on your private pilot knowledge as well, cloud clearance, entry into airspace, basic aerodynamics, SMACFUM, PAST, critical eng, etc
Click to expand...

Oh wow that all sounds so familiar! :)

My steep turns from the left seat are perfect and I only have to use one hand, but form the right seat they were really really ugly when I tried to do them with one hand. I didn't try using trim because I don't need one more thing to worry about doing PLUS worrying about not climbing because of the trim I added when I roll-out between the two turns.

USE TWO HANDS for steep turns from the right seat if you need to! I don't know why they are harder from the right seat... I mean, logically speaking they should be just as easy from either seat, right? The funny thing is that the instructors agree with me that they are harder from the right seat- particularly when doing them to the right. My instructor said that for some reason when you do them to the right from the right seat it wants to drop out of the sky during the second half of the turn- which is definitley true. In the second half of the right turns expect it to want to drop massively.

And you already know that the turns to your inside (right seat, right turn & left seat left turn) are the harder ones because of the parallax... the nose goes on the horizon instead of the top of the curved part of the glareshield.

My problem was actually looking OUTSIDE too much because I read the CFI PTS that stressed that you could be pinked for not ALWAYS looking for traffic. Looking outside (at those damn mountains instead of a horizon!) and talking about the maneuver was distracting me too much. Add to that the fact that I should have been using two hands so I wasn't struggling physically and it can be out of tolerance.

Don't you love those horizontal stabilators? :)

The PTS says to alway be clearing for traffic and that you can fail for not talking through everything, BUT!!! DO NOT talk through EVERYTHING! That is not what they want. Fly the airplane first (duh, right?).

The PTS doesn't say that you cannot use two hands. Of course you only have to dedicate a hand soley to the throttle when talking off and landing.
Even though you know you can do them perfectly one-handed from the left seat USE two hands if you need to!!!
Get your technique down ASAP since you only get to do 6 or 8 steep turns in 3.4 hours (since the first 1.6 is you watching Frank that equals 3.4).

And yes, most of it is Private Pilot stuff, which makes sense because that is who new CFI's usually teach, in the eyes of the FAA. That is what they are approving us for. Having the knowledge to teach EVERYTHING.

When is your checkride? Mine was on Monday/day 7 (like if yours was today) and I had so much studying to do I didn't have time to get the purposes PERFECTLY rote memorized and improvised. Flying isn't rocket science, but knowing I had them rote would have been nice for my confidence level. It wasn't a problem though. :)

Good luck, you'll do just fine if you figure out a technique that makes steep turns easier!
 
WOO-HOO Finally

I just completed the program at the end of May, i did the complete ACPP, and finished up with my checkride about a week and a half ago. I talked with Mike and he gave me my ticket to fly back home and I mentioned that I wanted to apply for a job with ATP, I faxed in my resume last week and just wanted to know what the usual time frame is, IF they will call you back? I've heard anywhere from 1 week up to 3 months, can anyone help?

thanks
 
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!

But I don't know the answer to your question... I wasn't willing to sell myself into slavery so did I not apply at ATP! :p
Plus I love living at home in Seattle and instructing here is a lot of fun.

We've got 1 Diamond Twin Star (another on the way), 3 DA20s, 3 DA40s, 6 172s, 1 182, 1 Bonanza, 1 Seminole and a Zlin! And it is free for us CFIs to fly the Twin Star G1000 simulator with wraparound screen! :)

Where are you from?
 
Matt, how's the CFI thing working out for you at BFI?

You guys really have a Zlin? I was thinking of getting one a few years ago but they had wing AD issues. How much do they get for one per hour? dual? chutes? bar bags?
 
Hey guys, I'm heading out to Vegas on saturday for the CFI school starting on the 19th. I was just wondering about the FOI, do you really need to know EVERYTHING or just the ones that are in the oral exam guide? There is definately a lot more in the actual book than the oral exam guide haha. Just making sure so I can get it down before i get out there.
 
The oral guide covers it pretty much. Take a look at the PTS- some of the examiners have a copy of those pages and they just check off each box as they go along. The PTS tells you exactly what they'll ask you about FOI.
 
DE727UPS said:
Matt, how's the CFI thing working out for you at BFI?

You guys really have a Zlin? I was thinking of getting one a few years ago but they had wing AD issues. How much do they get for one per hour? dual? chutes? bar bags?
Click to expand...

It's great! Since I've been trying to get all the things checked off on my " New CFI" to-do list it's been pretty busy. Part 141 certification meeting and test etc... then there is also all the billing and CATS stuff for working the front desk. Taking some time covering a little bit here and there. I've done 2 intro flights, 4 lesson flights with two different students and 2 1.5 hour sessions of ground with my first student. I meet with and fly with my second student again on Saturday 10 to 1:00 and will be manning the front desk for the rest of the day. My normal front desk duty will be Saturday 8:00 to 1:00 since I'm the newest guy there.

The Zlin is $199, $185 with the Diamond G club discount (which is a $500 initiation fee plus $39/month for the reduced rates and the insurance).

Dual is $53 ($49 Diamond G). I will have to find out about the rest!

I've logged just 8.6 flight hours since 6/7, but am just getting ramped up with my two new students right now. I fllew tonight with a 2 week old private pilot in crosswinds and then I've got an intro flight scheduled for Sunday.
I've got one student on Saturday (who is going to start M-F in a week or so) and then my other student M-F. It's gonna get busy around there soon.

I'm going to go get a lot of sleep now! :)
 
Could someone explain what the "Instructor packet" is? Does that pretty much cover what will be on the orals, or should I also go over something like the asa oral guide as well?
Thanks!! Oh yea, I keep posting with little responses, but anyone do the CFI program with no previous multi time, meaning did you do atps multi program then the cfi program? Thanks again!
 
The CFI packet that you receive is all information that you *should* know for your oral and is definately all fair game during the exam. However, you should also study the oral exam guide, or at least that's what I'm doing
 
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