CFI or Multi Time?!?!?s

aviatorrbt

aviatorrbt

New Member
I have a question that needs more than one opinion. I have my PPL and am working on my IFR. I met this person who works for United who is very opinionated. He said that I should not even worry about my CFI and just spend that money on buying a large block of multi-engine time. He believes that the multi-engine time is more valuable than having more hours and less multi engine time while applying for a job. I understand where he is coming from, but having a CFI job would open many doors, let alone build mad hours. What do you all think about this?
 
I would say go with the CFI (and MEI). Aside from flight instructing being fun, you will learn ALOT more about flying flight instructing than you will droning around in a Seminole for 50 or 100 hours.

Jason
 
How about get the CFI in a multi (of course, you'd need to get your multi commercial first). The CFI time is going to be a lot more useful to you as far as becoming a better pilot. However, if your goal is the airlines, you are going to need the multi time at some point anyways.

If you do purchase a block of multi time make sure you make good use of the time. Fly some long distance cross country trips. Get into complex airspace. Fly IFR procedures. Don't just go up and tool around the pattern or the practice area.
 
You should definently become a CFI in the multi (MEI) building blocks and spending all that money is great and all but you can learn so much more being a flight instructor and learning/working with different personalities. Working with different personalities can help you in the long run since you will be flying with a different captain sometimes or with a different f/o when the time comes. Getting a CFI license will definently be worth it! You will truly understand what flying is all about since you would have to teach it. :crazy: And when it comes time for the interview it could be less stressful since you have had all that CFI experience so you will have much more knowledge then just doing the block of multi time.
 
The multi time is more valuable if you want a job.

The CFI is more valuable if you want to become a better, more experienced pilot.

Sad, but true.
 
I have been contemplating this same sort of thing. I am a commercial single and multi instrument airplane with about 300 total hours and 13 multi. Quite a few regional carriers have no minimums just commercial multi engine. I have some friends that have gotten jobs at these airlines, such as Piedmont. I have chosen to go the route of doing the CFI. Although it may be more rewarding to get a job right away at a regional, if you want to mature into a well seasoned confident pilot, you should do your CFI. When you eventually do get a job at an airline you will be much more prepared and your captain will have a lot more trust in you than when you only had 300 hours. Flight Instruction is a right of passage that will teach you many things you would not learn flying from the same point a to the same point b everyday, if you know what I mean.

And for the buying multi time thing. This is what you should do. You should do your commercial liscense is a twin. This way you will have at least the 50 hours that most airlines require. Although this way is more expensive and sometimes can take longer. Both of these reasons are why I chose to do my initial commercial in a single and i did a multi add on to that. That's how I only ended up with 13 multi hours. You could do the route that I did in less time and money and then shoot for the MEI eventually. There are many options!!
 
To outline how I would decide, let me give you a scenario. Let's say you have 200 hours of multi, but only 500 tt, which could very well be the case if you don't CFI and just buy a bunch of multi time. All of the sudden the industry takes a downturn, and now you need 1000+ to even apply for a regional again (sound familiar?), and you're not even close to 135 minimums so forget cargo. You spent too much money on your multi, and you have no CFI, plus all the CFI jobs are filling up now that regionals aren't taking all of them away. All of the low time jobs are taken by the furloughed regional guys with 900-1200 tt and 400+ SIC in a jet. See where I'm going with this?
 
I've been thinking of the same...

I have respect for CFIs, but i have seen CFIs that couldn't even land a plane nicely, or do stalls...

after all, all you do is sit on the right, and monitor your student's progress, and once in a while (attempt) show manuevers to the student.

you will def have good knowledge of oral stuf, but when it comes to flight, I think you will be left out.

I'm probably going to invest in multi time... at least I'll be flying the plane.
 
Being a CFI doesn't make you an amazing airman...I means you know how to teach, and you can save landings every now and then. Being a CFI doesn't even make your judgement better. Get your multi, build some time, and learn some good stick and rudder stuff. Shoot as many approaches in actual conditions that you can (what I'm finding my weakness to be is staying ontop of things when things are stressed out), and actually fly. Get your CFI later when you want to teach. If you don't want to teach for a career, why the hell should you do it for 6mos-1 year to build time? You won't produce excellent students if you your only goal is to build time, so stay out of that arena.
 
ppragman said:
Being a CFI doesn't make you an amazing airman...I means you know how to teach, and you can save landings every now and then. Being a CFI doesn't even make your judgement better. Get your multi, build some time, and learn some good stick and rudder stuff. Shoot as many approaches in actual conditions that you can (what I'm finding my weakness to be is staying ontop of things when things are stressed out), and actually fly. Get your CFI later when you want to teach. If you don't want to teach for a career, why the hell should you do it for 6mos-1 year to build time? You won't produce excellent students if you your only goal is to build time, so stay out of that arena.
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good way to look at it...

i eventually want to get my CFI because I LOVE to teach, but I don't want to do it as means to build time. there is a time for everything, and I already have friends lined up for the future :D
 
In my current situation, I thank my lucky stars I have gone through the CFI programs, and trust me, they are current!

Makes you a much better crewmember.

Get your MEI.
 
I've been CFI'ing for about 600 hours now and I don't think I agree with the contention that being a CFI doesn't improve your actual stick skills. I've noticed that I can actually do the maneuvers BETTER and my landings are near perfect every time( at least they seem good to me :o)... I attribute this to explaining it over and over and watching my students very closely (especially on landings!). You still get the sensation of motion even when you aren't the one on the stick, and it really does contribute to your skills. I've heard of people having a hard time landing after not doing it for 2 weeks or whatever while CFI'ing, but I haven't had that experience at all- I think I've gotten significantly better.
 
Complacent and worthless CFI's judgment doesn't get better perhaps, or maybe you had a new one Taseal. You two (ppragman) are striking a nerve. How can an instructor expect students to do well if they can't?
Judgment doesn't get better? I am responsible for every flight I go on, not my students. That is in the back of my mind every time I fly into IMC, or with inop equipment, or anything else that is not a perfect situation. Being put into those situations does improve your judgment, because you are making decisions, which are usually made before the student even begins to speak.

ATC has a problem with your student (happens frequently at my school), who do they turn to?
Student doesn't check weather and notams, guess who's walking back inside to the computer because they didn't make a good decision? Not me.
"I think the weather is ok, we can go VFR," with an OVC 020 for a cross country.
Going into the plane for an IFR flight and the airplane isn't IFR legal, who do you think elects to go and who chooses to get the problem fixed?
Students do not make good, safe and legal decisions without guidance. I encourage my students to think and make their own decisions and if theirs is a good one then great, but I am the one responsible. This job is all about becoming a better airman in all aspects. Why do you think people keep saying to become a CFI because you learn a ton from it? It isn't just to pay dues.

If by judgment you meant controlling the airplane and not making the kind of decisions I was talking about, which doesn't make sense because they go hand in hand...my students wish they could do any of the maneuvers or land as well as I do. Who do they learn it from?? I'm not going to repeat Woog315, but what he said is right in regards to the motion sensation and learning what is right and wrong.

I am not saying to become a CFI to get where you want to go, but don't put us down if you haven't been there and experienced it yourself. If you have, please share your insight with us.
 
woog315 said:
I've been CFI'ing for about 600 hours now and I don't think I agree with the contention that being a CFI doesn't improve your actual stick skills. I've noticed that I can actually do the maneuvers BETTER and my landings are near perfect every time( at least they seem good to me :o)... I attribute this to explaining it over and over and watching my students very closely (especially on landings!). You still get the sensation of motion even when you aren't the one on the stick, and it really does contribute to your skills. I've heard of people having a hard time landing after not doing it for 2 weeks or whatever while CFI'ing, but I haven't had that experience at all- I think I've gotten significantly better.
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I agree. Another option if you can't get your MEI right away... there is such a shortage of CFIs these days that many chief instructors would be open, if they are capable of doing so, of compensating you in flight time and instruction in their twin, especially if you're going to be staying around and instructing in it.

What I mean is, lets say you have your CFI and II but you, like any intrepid young CFI, need that ME to get into the regionals. Approach your boss and be like: 'You pay me $20/hr. I can survive on $1500/month. How about for any amount above that -- you keep but I am credited 1.5 times here that I can use to rent the/a twin so I can get my MEI?' This won't truck at the major academies but you'd be surprised at how well that or some varient of that will work at some of the smaller schools out there.
 
todd584 said:
Complacent and worthless CFI's judgment doesn't get better perhaps, or maybe you had a new one Taseal. You two (ppragman) are striking a nerve. How can an instructor expect students to do well if they can't?
Judgment doesn't get better? I am responsible for every flight I go on, not my students. That is in the back of my mind every time I fly into IMC, or with inop equipment, or anything else that is not a perfect situation. Being put into those situations does improve your judgment, because you are making decisions, which are usually made before the student even begins to speak.

ATC has a problem with your student (happens frequently at my school), who do they turn to?
Student doesn't check weather and notams, guess who's walking back inside to the computer because they didn't make a good decision? Not me.
"I think the weather is ok, we can go VFR," with an OVC 020 for a cross country.
Going into the plane for an IFR flight and the airplane isn't IFR legal, who do you think elects to go and who chooses to get the problem fixed?
Students do not make good, safe and legal decisions without guidance. I encourage my students to think and make their own decisions and if theirs is a good one then great, but I am the one responsible. This job is all about becoming a better airman in all aspects. Why do you think people keep saying to become a CFI because you learn a ton from it? It isn't just to pay dues.

If by judgment you meant controlling the airplane and not making the kind of decisions I was talking about, which doesn't make sense because they go hand in hand...my students wish they could do any of the maneuvers or land as well as I do. Who do they learn it from?? I'm not going to repeat Woog315, but what he said is right in regards to the motion sensation and learning what is right and wrong.

I am not saying to become a CFI to get where you want to go, but don't put us down if you haven't been there and experienced it yourself. If you have, please share your insight with us.
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I'm not putting anybody down.... man, I always seem to make it look like I put people down, I did this with some freight dawgs here, and I apoligzed, that is not my intention to put anyone down....

It just irritates me when I see CFIs that are just there to make their hours, and gtfo. and I don't want to be like one of those guys... that is all I am saying.
 
aviatorrbt said:
I met this person who works for United who is very opinionated.
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Just because someone voices their opinion doesn't make them right.

He said that I should not even worry about my CFI and just spend that money on buying a large block of multi-engine time.
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Depends on if he is displacing his desires onto your situation as to how he would get into the airlines and fly for the majors if he was in your shoes again.

Theres this guy at my airport who is all "rah, rah, rah. you need to apply for american, because im 54 years old and worked there 30 years and seniority is everything....blah blah blah." Yeah :sarcasm: maybe you need to ask me what my goals are before you tell me what i need to do....

He believes that the multi-engine time is more valuable than having more hours and less multi engine time while applying for a job.
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Depends on the job....

Dont let other people tell you what to do
 
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