CFI Night Currency

wjmiller3

Well-Known Member
You do not have to be night current to give dual. If I was near a far/aim I would give you the reg. Im sure someone will chime in.
 

bdhill1979

Gone West
You do not have to be night current to give dual. If I was near a far/aim I would give you the reg. Im sure someone will chime in.
I have a copy of the FAA legal interpretation that states that the neither the instructor or the student count as a passenger. Therefore neither have to be night current. It clearly states that the CFI cannot log the students landings towards currency, and vice versa.

There was also an AOPA article about it about a while ago.
 

johnnybu

New Member
Technically as a CFI to fly at night with your students, do you have to be night current??
Not that the AOPA is the final authority when it comes to the FARs, but there was recently an article in AOPA flight training magazine about this. Here's a snippet from that article, with the FAA's interpretation:

"We agree that, for purposes of section 61.57(b), an authorized instructor providing instruction in an aircraft is not considered a passenger with respect to the person receiving instruction, even where the person receiving the instruction is acting as PIC. (The instructor must be current, qualified to instruct, and hold a category, class, and type rating in the aircraft, if a class and type rating is required.) The instructor is not a passenger because he is present specifically to train the person receiving instruction. Neither is the person receiving instruction a passenger with respect to the instructor. This training may take place, even though neither pilot has met the 61.57(b) requirements."
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
I usually just "steal" a takeoff or landing from my student every now and then, just in case. Like if we are working on the instrument rating, I will tell them I am doing this landing.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member

jrh

Well-Known Member
I usually just "steal" a takeoff or landing from my student every now and then, just in case. Like if we are working on the instrument rating, I will tell them I am doing this landing.
If my CFI had done this to me while I was in training, I would have been kind of pissed.

Not that the 0.05 hours off the hobbs meter matter, it's more an issue of the attitude of the CFI, thinking of himself over the student. My belief is that 100% of the lesson should focus on benefiting the student, takeoffs, landings, and all. If the flight school isn't willing to invest the minimal amount it takes to keep their CFIs current, that's a problem for the CFIs and management to figure out, but students shouldn't get drug in to it.

But maybe I'm overly sensitive to that kind of thing. Just a pet peeve of mine.
 

SpiceWeasel

Tre Kronor
I would switch instructors if someone were to do this to me. I already pay enough for your time, why should I pay you to get current?
 

matt152

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I have to "demonstrate" a forward slip to landing for one of my primary guys. Sometimes they need a little "help" with the rudder in a crosswind landing. I log those for currency also.

Unfortunately, most of my guys are instrument students, so I have to take what I can get. It sucks, but I can't afford to rent the planes in which I instruct.
 

JLF

Well-Known Member
My instructor and I trade off pretty often. We bet cokes on short fields and stuff like that.

We train like crazy, but always have a lot of fun. I like seeing how an ol' pro gets stuff done.
 

jhugz

#lighttwin Mafia
I usually just "steal" a takeoff or landing from my student every now and then, just in case. Like if we are working on the instrument rating, I will tell them I am doing this landing.
I knew as soon as I read this segment it was going to be flame bait. However I do agree with you. When I was trying I would get burned out and if I didn't need to work on landings I would give it to the instructor. I am more than willing to spend an extra 5 dollars an hour on letting the have the landing especially because I knew he was making only 15 dollars an hour.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I have to "demonstrate" a forward slip to landing for one of my primary guys. Sometimes they need a little "help" with the rudder in a crosswind landing. I log those for currency also..
No can do. Read the reg. "Sole manipulator" for currency, not ""a little help with the rudder."
 

matt152

Well-Known Member
No can do. Read the reg. "Sole manipulator" for currency, not ""a little help with the rudder."
Yeah, you are right. Mea culpa.

I guess I'll be saying "my flight controls" from now on whenever I save us from going into the the runway lights.

Matt - "sole manipulator of the rudder"
 

SpiceWeasel

Tre Kronor
Well since you have 3 primary flight controls.... ailerons elevator and rudder.... can you log 1/3 of a landing if you do that? :sarcasm:
 

matt152

Well-Known Member
Well since you have 3 primary flight controls.... ailerons elevator and rudder.... can you log 1/3 of a landing if you do that? :sarcasm:
Don't forget the throttle, mixture, carb heat and rotating beacon. Really, it's like 9/10ths of a landing. :laff:

By the way, I'm a card-carrying member of Americans United. www.au.org
 

sdfcvoh

This is my Custom Title
I've had a couple that were working on eventually becoming CFI's, so I asked them if they would treat me like a student and "talk me through a landing" while I'm at the controls. That method can also be a great way for a student to learn even if they are only going for their PPL.

Even if it wasn't for currency purposes I would still use that technique. I mean, don't we all know that teaching is sometimes the best way to learn?

Just my $.02.... flame away.....:bandit:
 

Nihon_Ni

Well-Known Member
If my CFI had done this to me while I was in training, I would have been kind of pissed.
I would switch instructors if someone were to do this to me. I already pay enough for your time, why should I pay you to get current?
I agree. I never steal a landing; I even feel a bit guilty if they offer me one and I accept.
:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:

Does you doctor ever take any of the medication he prescribes to you (and you buy) because he doesn't have his own meds? Stealing from your customer is abhorrent behavior and not something any professional should do.

It sucks, but I can't afford to rent the planes in which I instruct.
I'm not sure that's completely accurate. How much does it really cost to do 3 takeoff and landings? If you can afford to go out for pizza and a movie every 90 days, you can afford to buy your own flight time to keep yourself current. Otherwise, limit yourself to daytime-only lessons or begin setting aside a portion of your pay every week for your "once every 90 days" night flight. (Even if it costs $100 to get night current, that's only $1 per day -- ever drink a soda or buy a cup of coffee?)

A trick that I do when I'm coming up on the end of my night currency is to take advantage of a lesson that I already have scheduled when I can. When the student gets us back to the airport at the end of his lesson and lands, I note the hobbs and take over. I make three landings, and provide instruction to him while doing all the flying. I can normally make three landing and taxi back to the parking area in .3 hrs if I start at the end of his flight. I usually demonstrate the differences between day and night and talk about what I’m doing as it happens. With more advanced guys I do things like turn off the landing light or all the interior lights and show them how to deal with those failures. At the end of the flight, they get their entire lesson plus my .3 logged as dual received. I log it all as dual given, and I get the landings I did for currency.

It's a win-win because it's easy (and cheap) for me (I didn't have to preflight and taxi to the runway an extra time) and the student gets extra instruction by watching me do these things. Most importantly, it shows the student that I'm not above the law and I adhere to the same regulations that I demand he follow.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that's completely accurate. How much does it really cost to do 3 takeoff and landings? If you can afford to go out for pizza and a movie every 90 days, you can afford to buy your own flight time to keep yourself current. Otherwise, limit yourself to daytime-only lessons
Doesn't really have to limit himself to day-only lessons. A CFI isn't legally required to maintain night currency to teach at night. He may want to get in a night landing now and then to feel proficient, but the regulatory 3-in-90 doesn't technically apply.

Might make the stealing even worse. If its for currency, it's only needed for non-teaching passenger-carrying situations. If it's for proficiency, if the CFI isn't proficient at night landings, maybe he shouldn't be teaching them.
 
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