CFI checkride difficulties.......

juskl

juskl

Well-Known Member
Those of you in the Phoenix area..... Is everyone aware of the new level the bar has been raised for the CFI practical and oral portion????? Long story short (and probably a nobrainer) but we must all now know everything...... and I do mean everything. Stems from the examiners not being happy with the quality of candidates for all certs.... Anyway, the pass rate is not going too well as of this point and alot of frustration is insuing..... Hope to take my ride in a month or so, so let the cramming begin....... Anyone have experience with this in the recent past????

I guess I should ask this in a bit different of a way, does it seem like the expectation is overly ridiculous.... or was it allowed to lapse and they are just bringing it back up to where it should be?????
 
juskl said:
Those of you in the Phoenix area..... Is everyone aware of the new level the bar has been raised for the CFI practical and oral portion????? Long story short (and probably a nobrainer) but we must all now know everything...... and I do mean everything.
Click to expand...

Considering the amount of power, responsibility, and expectations being an instructor involves, I think you should be expected to know 'everything'. As an instructor, you set the standard for the next generation of pilots.

I got my CFI a bit over a year ago, from a local flight school in North Carolina. The local FSDO (GSO) handled all initial CFI rides in the district, and my checkride consisted of a 6 hour oral and 2 hour flight. It was long, and probed just about 'everything', but I felt it was fair.

The CFI shouldn't be just another rating to acquire like so many people think it is.

~Z
 
juskl said:
Those of you in the Phoenix area..... Is everyone aware of the new level the bar has been raised for the CFI practical and oral portion????? Long story short (and probably a nobrainer) but we must all now know everything...... and I do mean everything. Stems from the examiners not being happy with the quality of candidates for all certs.... Anyway, the pass rate is not going too well as of this point and alot of frustration is insuing..... Hope to take my ride in a month or so, so let the cramming begin....... Anyone have experience with this in the recent past????

I guess I should ask this in a bit different of a way, does it seem like the expectation is overly ridiculous.... or was it allowed to lapse and they are just bringing it back up to where it should be?????
Click to expand...
You'll hear rumours like this all the time. It basically originates from a "know it all" that failed. And their excuse....They make you know everything now. Don't worry yourself into failing and having the excuse of well it was next to impossible to pass. Remember you are trying to be able to sign people off for checkrides. Your attitude needs to reflect that. If you are scared out of your mind about checkrides, how confident will your students be?
We had a case of checkairmen here at Riddle that "everyone failed" with. Then there were other guys labled as easy. Turns out they had the same pass rate. Just the big mouths that "shoulda passed" that didn't created a big fuss about it.
Don't sweat it and know everything.:nana2:
 
Actually, the board of DPE's met last week to discuss the sometimes unfair practices that certain Examiners are placing on the applicants. The outcome is that the quality of applicants lately has been less then great (according to them), so they are holding all applicants to task on this issue..... I agree that as instructors we should no our stuff.... no doubt... we are the ones the students look towards as being the expert...... The bar has just been raised over what has passed in the past..... Also, Checkrides may turn into a two day affair in the very near future.... As most Orals are getting to be over 6 hours long, they feel that a two day checkride may benefit everyone involved..... We'll see....
 
I used to be a flight instructor in the Phoenix area. When I was there (3 years ago), the average failure rate for initial CFI applicants was 90%. And I heard that the SDL FSDO was quite proud of that number. I signed off three people for initial CFI checkrides, one passed the first. All of my students were well prepared, but some of the questions that were asked of them were just rediculous. I don't think the FSDO would like it too much if the pass rate for initial CFIs became too high. I think the examiners would have some explaining to do if they passed too many initial CFI candidates the first time.

It is not like this in other parts of the country, but that is how I remember it in Phoenix. :mad:
 
If the question is in the PTS then it is fair game. If the question was not in the PTS then I would ask the examiner to please show me what task he was currently on so that I could follow along. If he can't tell you the task then it is an illegal question and you don't have to answer it.
 
After instructing for a bit I've realized how important the CFI check ride really is. It should be hard, as said before, there is a high amont of responsibility involved. When I was doing mine it seemed to be just another test, I think most see it as this until they get some dual given in the log. Besisde that the test and training doesn't prepare you very much for the actual job. Of course it depends on the person you train with but if I ever get a CFI student I'll really try make it as real as possible. The CFI is just a certificate for on the job training.

The FAA preaches standardization like no other, but it seems most examiners are not standardaized. I really think this should be addressed. It's almost like you have to prepare each student for the specific examiner. They try to elimiante that on the initial CFI for a reason, but it does lead to more failures than the other certificates.
 
mikecweb said:
You'll hear rumours like this all the time. It basically originates from a "know it all" that failed. And their excuse....They make you know everything now. Don't worry yourself into failing and having the excuse of well it was next to impossible to pass. Remember you are trying to be able to sign people off for checkrides. Your attitude needs to reflect that. If you are scared out of your mind about checkrides, how confident will your students be?
We had a case of checkairmen here at Riddle that "everyone failed" with. Then there were other guys labled as easy. Turns out they had the same pass rate. Just the big mouths that "shoulda passed" that didn't created a big fuss about it.
Don't sweat it and know everything.:nana2:
Click to expand...
Its not a rumor. I've seen very competent pilots bust for absolutely ridiculous things. I don't mean to discourage anyone, but don't put too much pressure on yourself. If you bust, just keep trying and you'll eventually get it.
subpilot said:
If the question is in the PTS then it is fair game. If the question was not in the PTS then I would ask the examiner to please show me what task he was currently on so that I could follow along. If he can't tell you the task then it is an illegal question and you don't have to answer it.
Click to expand...
That's an excellent way to bust a ride. Don't even mention the PTS. Just do what they ask. If you don't know, you don't know, just move on. Thre are a lot of inspectors that think they are God and if you try to imply that you know the PTS better than they do, they WILL take it personally. Nobody is perfect and they WILL find something that is in the PTS that you didn't satisfy. And its their word against yours.

BTW I passed my CFI ride on the first try. It was mostly luck.
 
flyguy said:
That's an excellent way to bust a ride. Don't even mention the PTS. Just do what they ask. If you don't know, you don't know, just move on.
Click to expand...

I had my PTS open the whole time and I frequently would ask what page, or task, are we on now. That is how my instructor told me to do it and the examiner seemed to have no problem with it. To each his own I guess.
 
Every pilot, examiner, airplane, checkride, day, etc is different. The best pilot in the world could fail a checkride, and the worst pilot in the world could pass one in the blink of an eye. I've seen stuff like this happen a lot. In fact, I've considered (and I'm still considering) reporting a DE because of a COUPLE of the circumstances surrounding the initial MEI checkride of... someone I know. : ) Long story so I won't go into it now. You can listen to advice from everyone leading up to a checkride. And all of it will probably be true to some extent or under certain circumstances, or with certain examiners. But EVERY checkride is different. I'd say the best thing to do is just know your stuff as well as you can and don't fret. If you know your stuff and you're confident about that (confident-not to be confused with cocky... a serious side-effect resulting from getting your pilot certificate) then it will be obvious to the examiner. I have found (and once again... everyone is different) that the best way to approach a checkride is to act as if you're going flying and there's a really nice guy that you're taking up with you. He's interested in flying so he asks you to show him a few things or explain a few things. Just do it, explain it, etc. Worrying about it is only going to screw you up or screw you up more. And don't try to BS the DE. That's a big big NO-NO. They know their crap. They'll likely see RIGHT through it. And they've seen it all before. Also, try to look forward to your checkride. Although I'm not a big fan of checkrides, I do love learning new tricks and tips from the DEs during the rides. It never fails. They LOVE to impart knowledge. And everyone knows that every pilot thinks/believes that he/she is the best. His/her practices/procedures for doing everything are the best. So if he/she can make another pilot do stuff more like him/her, the skies would be a safer place. THE EXAMINERS ARE A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THIS. Use it as a learning experience. Even if you don't agree with it, everything they say is "VERY interesting" or an "interesting way of looking at it." You get the idea. Play the game, but at the same time learn something! Just remember that you can only do the best that you can do. No matter what there is ALWAYS a chance that you will fail. It's an unfortunate fact of flying life. A friend of mine showed up for a checkride after a full night's sleep, rearing to go, and the first thing the examiner said to him was "You look fatigued. I'm rescheduling the checkride." I also know someone that had a two hour initial-MEI checkride (two hours TOTAL... oral, flight, paperwork and all) because the DE had somewhere he needed to be. So it all depends. If you're too nervous, maybe you're just not ready for the license. Just know your stuff and fly like you do normally and you're putting as many odds as you can in your favor.

Happy flying all


CFI, CFII, MEI
 
FlyEDouglas said:
act as if you're going flying and there's a really nice guy that you're taking up with you.
Click to expand...
Very, very nice write-up, FlyE. That is the best way to go about checkrides.

And I like how you were really conscientious about your equally sharing the He/She references. That shows attention to detail. Examiners like that. So do other people. Matter of fact, we all pay attention to people who pay attention.

So it really isn't any different than any other important meeting - such as a job interview. Your character is being judged as well as your skill.
 
At my school the time for your CFI oral can vary greatly. I really lucked out and got by with 2.0 and 2.1 orals(we have two stage checks at the end of the course). I know some people who had double that. I was expecting a really long one but when I thought we were about half way through they said "well...I feel comfortable with your level of teaching, so we're done here". Needless to say I was pretty thrilled.

I think one of the most important parts of being a CFI is being able to use your references. That is taught quite strongly here, when they ask you to teach something, break out your books, diagrams, models, visual aids, whatever you have that will help get the point accross to the "student". I forget the exact number, but the percentage of stuff that people remember when they're spoken to is extremely low. On top of just telling them something, if you show them a picture it will probably stick better.

As has been said above, just relax and do your best, that's all you can do. If it takes you a second try and you eventually pass, you get the same CFI certificate as the rest of us. It doesn't say (this guy took two tries!) on the back of the certificate.
 
Thanks all for the replies here. Currently about 4 weeks out, if all goes well. Feel like I need to still study about 3 months of stuff (normal for me) so we'll see. The one thing that I have loved about this site, is the help and support from all those here. Though, I am still not looking forward to the 6 hour oral, hell sometimes I don't even sleep for 6 hours....:) Oh well.... Thanks again for all the responses.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top