CFI at ATP

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
The RJ course is pointless. No one is hiring and having an RJ course right now isnt going to help you ANY! There are too many qualified pilots in an RJ, EMB, and other planes out there looking for jobs. Right now Piedmont just announced when they do start hiring they are going to be looking for a minimum of 1000 hours and 121 qualified pilots. Why? Because that's whats out there right now and they can make the minimums that when they start hiring back up.
 

turbomax97

What can brown do for you?
now lets say I pay for the RJ program and then instruct there do they give instructors who already have the RJ certificate more sim time or something or is it better to not pay for it and hope I get hired and then get the free RJ certificate.

http://www.atpflightschool.com/jobs/index.html

What do you think a RJ program is going to get you in this day and age especially?

If it's free, like it is as a CFI, fine. Why would you pay for it? If you have that much extra cash I sure could use some!:p
 

Kalikiano

New Member
my loan has already gone through to include the RJ when it was at 59k and not 57k. Gonna call and see how they will work the price reduction if I dont want the RJ course.

I dont know if the RJ course is worth it or not (way it seems on these boards its not) but I just saw that non-graduate CFIs get the RJ course for free where I would be paying the $2,500 for it.
 

nkoenig

New Member
my loan has already gone through to include the RJ when it was at 59k and not 57k. Gonna call and see how they will work the price reduction if I dont want the RJ course.

I dont know if the RJ course is worth it or not (way it seems on these boards its not) but I just saw that non-graduate CFIs get the RJ course for free where I would be paying the $2,500 for it.
They should be able to refund the money back to SLM for not doing the RJ course.
 

fletchersteel

Well-Known Member
I was told that they were refunding $2500, and it was discounted price to ATP students. It would be quite pointless at this day in time to take the course. They did say that I could take the RJ anytime in the next two years for the $2500 price. By then, I'll be the best hamburger flipper out there! Yea right!

Forgot to add: It is suppose to be sent back to the student as a check from ATP.
 

Kalikiano

New Member
now just so I fully understand the relationship between the RJ course and future hiring minimums.

RJ course is useless because after ATP & RJ course iill have like 300 hours and a certificate that is supposed to show im ready for airline training but the airlines wont hire below 1000 or something like that so Ill still be CFIing for awhile anyway.

Now lets say someone has 1500TT would it be beneficial for them to take the RJ course if the airlines where hiring again?
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
now just so I fully understand the relationship between the RJ course and future hiring minimums.

RJ course is useless because after ATP & RJ course iill have like 300 hours and a certificate that is supposed to show im ready for airline training but the airlines wont hire below 1000 or something like that so Ill still be CFIing for awhile anyway.

Now lets say someone has 1500TT would it be beneficial for them to take the RJ course if the airlines where hiring again?
Honestly no one here can say what will happen in the industry right now. Heck I can give you educated guesses but they are not going to be worth anything and just speculation about what will happen. We do not know how things are going to rebound. If you just look at the industry right now you see AWAC, PSA, RAH, Xjet, Comair, AE, Colgan, and many others with furloughs. You see Skywest with Midwest flying that could be gone tomorrow and very likely they might need to make a move. You see ASA being over staffed based on recent analysis of the situation. Right now things are a crap shoot. Who will be hiring in a year from now? Who knows. Should you plan on getting hired with a regional in the next 7-12 months after starting trainging tomorrow? I'd say no. Honestly there are about 3000 pilots out there right now whom are typed rated and qualified in 121 aircraft without jobs. Now you have to complete with them for that one job that MIGHT be open. Right now its just not pretty. Thus right now a JET course will get you no where. YOu arent going to be hired with reduced mins right now. End of conversation.
 

Captain_Bob

Well-Known Member
People are quick to jump on the bandwagon of dissent...

The fact is... the RJ program was a necessity for ATP Grads to take advantage of the lowered mins per the LOA's that the airlines had with ATP during the hiring boom of the last two years.

Now... obviously... the industry has changed. That is exactly why ATP is offering the refund at this time. It has always been ATP's stance that you shouldn't take the course until you are ready to go to an airline... so it can be a kind of "prep" course to get you into the Ground School/Systems/SIM mentality. Well... the past two years folks have been completeing the course within a few months/weeks of finishing the program and had been getting hired. So... it made sense.

It clearly doesn't make sense to complete the course now just after all your ratings when everyone knows you'll be digging into a CFI gig (or other flying) for a while now. Because then by the time you do get hired down the road... you'll have forgotten most of the beneficial info.

Now, they are simply reverting back to the way it was before the hiring boom... and simply offering the course at a discount whenever... and if ever, the student wants it. Simple as that. The industry changed... and ATP changed with it. Good business sense in my opinion.

As to why they are refunding the price of $2500 vs. the full course price... that's easy enough too. From the first page of their website... it clearly states that the normal program cost is $6995 however, it is discounted to $2500 for any ACPP grad. That's any grad... even those that didn't have it "included" in their program over that past year or so.

It's just so darn easy to knock this or any other flight school right now because the industry is what it is... isn't it? ;)

My opinion continues to be... train and prepare now to be ready for the next wave. In the meantime, you will gain some extremely valuable experience along the way. Obviously, furloughees will be the first to get hired back... I find it funny that people on here seem to be suggesting that you shouldn't prepare now since the airlines will only be hiring back furloughees and thus will not possibly need any other folks.

It's cyclical... we all know that. Those that change and adapt with the times will survive... that includes: Existing 121 pilots, existing airlines, flight schools and future professional pilots.

Bob
 

SatelliteBeachPilot

Well-Known Member
Great post Bob.

I know that I will be delaying my RJ course, I really don't know what I might fall in to in the next year after I finish the ACPP course. I may never need to go to the RJ course, for all I know I could end up crop dusting and loving it. We'll see what happens.
 

Kalikiano

New Member
^^ very true.

Working at a FBO for my internship I met this forest ranger Pilot that had a nice little setup. He flies around looking for forest fire in a C172. I know some of the forestry planes are really old but he had a 2000+ 172, forgot what he told me. We were near Outer Banks, NC so Im sure he has some great views as he flies around plus its a state job so the benefits have to be nice I would think.
 

SIUav8er

Narcosis
^^ very true.

Working at a FBO for my internship I met this forest ranger Pilot that had a nice little setup. He flies around looking for forest fire in a C172. I know some of the forestry planes are really old but he had a 2000+ 172, forgot what he told me. We were near Outer Banks, NC so Im sure he has some great views as he flies around plus its a state job so the benefits have to be nice I would think.
exactly! there are so many other jobs besides the regional airlines. sometimes it seems that ATP hype and jetcareers, etc. makes us forget this. If you want to fly for a living bad enough, you can do it. And ATP is a great place to instruct IMO. i worked there for over a year and enjoyed it and gained some really great experience that I probably wouldnt have had at my local FBO school.
 

89PDTCF

Well-Known Member
I should be finished with my CFI/CFII around 8/1. I'm thinking about getting my MEI at ATP at that time. Any chance of getting hired at ATP after the MEI? (pref. FLL, where I'd get the MEI) Anyone have any idea what ATP's south FL hiring situation will be like in the next month or so?
Regards
 

FD4life

New Member
From what I've heard from a friend of mine at ATP, hiring is slowing if not stopping at ATP for instructors. Rumor also has it that you no longer get to pick your own location. You get what you get. Most of the S. FL. bases are small locations anyway, so, chances are not good for getting one. I think FLL only has one or maybe two instructors, and the airlines mins are way up for the ones that are still hiring. So, chances are good they won't be leaving any time soon.
 

DL31082

Well-Known Member
ATP is really slowing down hiring CFIs. They stopped the standardization course out in Phoenix completely and will only be doing one a month in JAX. I have heard recently that ATL will have some openings in the near future. Most of the S. FL locations are one or two instructor locations so they are probably all full. DAB, CRG, and PFN are probably needing instructors and I know that they wanted someone for BWG. With all the instructors staying standardization has gotten a lot harder, so good luck.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
I'm not a real pro-ATP guy (although I do think they give you what they promise at the price they promise) and definitely not a pro-RJ course guy, in fact I'm fairly anti-RJ course.

With that said -- playing devil's advocate I have noticed people who went to an RJ course of some kind do very well in sim (which isn't surprising since they basically paid to go through sim in a FTD already.) Not to say people who don't have it dont do as well or better but if I was planning on going to the airlines and I had some way to get an RJ course for free I'd probably take advantage of it. I'm assuming ATP is still offering the course free to instructors after 300 hrs dual given. The salary of ATP instructors has gone up a lot sine I went to ATP (was $1000 minus rent when I went through) and the bonuses such as this actually make ATP look like a semi-decent place to work. YMMV.

Of course the devil's devil's advocate would say this is a cue for ATP to scale back CFI compensation like they did after 9/11.
 
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