Carlsbad Helo Crash...RIP Two Dead

I'v only flown a heilo for about an hour, but why wouldn't you go neutral throttle and/or collective? in this instance?
 
Der_Meister said:
I'v only flown a heilo for about an hour, but why wouldn't you go neutral throttle and/or collective? in this instance?
Click to expand...

Easier said than done. Things happen quick after losing tail rotor thrust. From my computer desk and having more than a fraction of a second to think about it, yes you would want to lower the collective immediately and then cut power to the engine. The pilot in this instance may have anticipated they were going to contact the ground and increased collective right before or during the time tail rotor thrust was lost therefor making the situation worse. Then before the pilot could react they were in a climb and spinning out of control.
 
I saw a rather long video of the heilo spinning last night on the news. I too just don't get it?
 
Low_Level_Hell said:
Easier said than done. Things happen quick after losing tail rotor thrust. From my computer desk and having more than a fraction of a second to think about it, yes you would want to lower the collective immediately and then cut power to the engine. The pilot in this instance may have anticipated they were going to contact the ground and increased collective right before or during the time tail rotor thrust was lost therefor making the situation worse. Then before the pilot could react they were in a climb and spinning out of control.
Click to expand...

Yup. There isn't any cushioning of the landing when you've lost tail rotor. As you know, you're already screwed due to being in a hover.

If the bird is impacted on the ground with its engine at FLY and whats left of the rotor system still spinning and still shedding parts and shrapnel everywhere, CFR can't safely approach it. Certainly not with handlines and certainly not with any rescue capability. Parts being slung like that or a fuselage thats still spinning around, can injure/kill guys both outside as well as inside vehicles.
 
MikeD said:
Yup. There isn't any cushioning of the landing when you've lost tail rotor. As you know, you're already screwed due to being in a hover.

If the bird is impacted on the ground with its engine at FLY and whats left of the rotor system still spinning and still shedding parts and shrapnel everywhere, CFR can't safely approach it. Certainly not with handlines and certainly not with any rescue capability. Parts being slung like that or a fuselage thats still spinning around, can injure/kill guys both outside as well as inside vehicles.
Click to expand...

Tail rotor malfunction landing are pretty smooth if it's a running landing with a known failure. In a hover.. Not so much.
 
AAPalmTree said:
Tail rotor malfunction landing are pretty smooth if it's a running landing with a known failure. In a hover.. Not so much.
Click to expand...

Not unless it happens in a very low hover.....like 2-3 feet.... where ground impact can be minimal, AND assuming you are able to pretty instantly enter an auto the moment it occurs. Even then, you'll still likely land with somewhat of a spin and end up on your side........shedding parts and pieces all over the place.
 
Its all rather confusing, if sounds like the impact shouldn't have been that hard, but it also doesn't make sense why they couldn't shut off the engine. Everyone with any knowledge of the a-star would reach for that at first sign of difficulty.
 
Yeah I gotta agree i can't understand why this spun as long as it did without a mechanical issue keeping the pilot from rolling off throttle or disengaging the transmission or any number of other things.

Pilot was reported to be landing on a dolly. That isn't that high up. I land on them all the time. You're maybe a max of 5 feet above the ground when down full, less if you missed and rolled off.

So either the pilot was incompasicated during the crash, like hit his head and was knocked out (helmets are a good thing) or some sort of mechanical failure prevented the pilot from shutting down the engine.

This is a strange one for sure. Eagerly waiting the factual.
 
Have you ever been on the amusement ride where you stand up, the ride begins to spin and then the floor drops out from under you? As with this type of ride, so was this helicopter; Its a centrifuge!

My guess is that, if not killed by the initial impact, both occupants were literally smashed against the doors and were physically unable to reach the throttles. The G forces they sustained would have knocked them out quickly. If they were awake, they force against them would have been extreme.
 
fholbert said:
Gives some idea of how long this went on.

Click to expand...

Holy crap! I started this thread because I thought it was kind of weird that it went on as long as it did. And that was only a fraction of of what we saw in the first videos. I counted roughly 60-70 revolutions per minute. Not sure any one could stay awake during that amount of continuous G force, especially if they already sustained some type of head injury. That just sucks. RIP.
 
PositionAndHold said:
Holy crap! I started this thread because I thought it was kind of weird that it went on as long as it did. And that was only a fraction of of what we saw in the first videos. I counted roughly 60-70 revolutions per minute. Not sure any one could stay awake during that amount of continuous G force, especially if they already sustained some type of head injury. That just sucks. RIP.
Click to expand...

Like I was saying, nothing CFR can do until that spinning as well as the shedding of parts and shrapnel, stops. Sad, but true.

I_Money said:
Its all rather confusing, if sounds like the impact shouldn't have been that hard, but it also doesn't make sense why they couldn't shut off the engine. Everyone with any knowledge of the a-star would reach for that at first sign of difficulty.
Click to expand...

As mentioned by others, unless that wasn't possible. Depending on whether a B/D/B1/B2/BA/BB variant or a B3 variant, may be extremely difficult to reach either fuel cutoff lever in that event.
 
MikeD said:
Like I was saying, nothing CFR can do until that spinning as well as the shedding of parts and shrapnel, stops. Sad, but true.



As mentioned by others, unless that wasn't possible. Depending on whether a B/D/B1/B2/BA/BB variant or a B3 variant, may be extremely difficult to reach either fuel cutoff lever in that event.
Click to expand...
I could only imagine how helpless CFR felt. Unfortunately in this case it wasn't true but my dad always used to joke, "the safest place in a helicopter crash is IN the helicopter, those things spit parts in every direction".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top