Capt. Sully response to Airline's Researching One Pilot/Drone Commercial Airliner

ScorpionStinger

Well-Known Member
Link to video interview: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50147207n

Surprised nobody posted this link of Capt. Sully being interviewed by CBS regarding new research the airlines are doing.

Capt. Sully says he doesn't see why the airline would want this, except for money, and that if it's because of a pilot shortage that their isn't a shortage, "There is not a pilot shortage right now, and their won't be if the airlines can pay more than starvation level entry level wages."

IMHO... Money is the bottom line after all. The airlines will move towards this route with redundancies in place to increase safety, and mitigate public's concerns. May not happen until the year 2050/2060, but it WILL happen. People had fears and concerns with fly-by-wire too during its infancy.
 
I agree that it'll probably be feasible technology-wise in the future if someone were truly adamant about making it happen...but like Captain Sully says, it's an utterly laughable concept taken to the extreme in my opinion. Where does the advantage lie in keeping the copilot on the ground? Are airlines betting on this because they think that they can pay the "copilot" even less somehow? I think Captain Sully summarized things very well as to why it's a dumb idea.
 
Probably has everything to do with finding some way to save a few dollars by keeping the SIC on the ground. I'm sure that will also be a very reasonable response to the devastated families if and when there is an accident where all souls on board perish.
 
The irony is that the airline industry started out with single pilot airplanes.
If only it wasnt wildly safer to have two guys up front in a 121 operation no matter if part 23 or 25 certified that analogy would hold up better.

get rid of all the pilots. just have the bravest passenger fly the leg, ticket prices would probably drop 100 bucks on average.
 
If only it wasnt wildly safer to have two guys up front in a 121 operation no matter if part 23 or 25 certified that analogy would hold up better.

get rid of all the pilots. just have the bravest passenger fly the leg, ticket prices would probably drop 100 bucks on average.

My point being is that times change. We went from single pilot airliners to airliners with 4 or 5 cockpit crewmembers, and now we're back down to 2. Does anyone really think that today's airline industry is less safe than yesterday's? If the day ever comes where single pilot airlines become the norm, it will be because advances in technology made the second pilot unnecessary, just as 1980's technology did with the flight engineer .
 
My point being is that times change. We went from single pilot airliners to airliners with 4 or 5 cockpit crewmembers, and now we're back down to 2. Does anyone really think that today's airline industry is less safe than yesterday's? If the day ever comes where single pilot airlines become the norm, it will be because advances in technology made the second pilot unnecessary, just as 1980's technology did with the flight engineer .

The hardware changed quite a bit, the level of safety too. Taking examples from the 50's and bringing it into 2013 might be troublesome in this way.

Also I don't understand this sentence please explain:
Does anyone really think that today's airline industry is less safe than yesterday's?
I can't figure out how you transitioned to that point from your sentences before and after. But if I were to take it at face value then:
I don't. I would link the single pilot to multiple pilot in the cockpit is a clear distinction of safety levels created. Anyone in the dual pilot cockpit has had those moments when the other guy says, "hey man you want that ils up, you've still got the VOR in" and I've done the same for others. Or the "You said this missed was a right turn right? I thought you said left turn" and you say "Oh crap, yeah left wouldn't be any good hu?"

I know that's a little anecdotal but that isn't going to stop me from doing more. Look into Scare Now up in New England (Air Now really). They used to run a bunch of EMB-110 out of Bennington VT as a single pilot operation. The Fed's were wary of going single pilot on that thing, but they figured, "what the hell it's just cargo and pilots don't count as lives", so after the third crash in about 12 months came a little too close to populated areas for the Fed's taste they made them go back to two pilot cockpits. You see the first couple pilots being strained through the cockpits (Scare Now's specialty), wasn't a big deal, but when it comes to passengers or people on the ground, that's different.

The Fed's believe multiple crew members increase safety, and the numbers back them up. Furthermore, mainstream human factors today has given up on the 1960's goal of a fully automated cockpit in favor of gifting the pilots with more and more tools to "see" as a computer might. This increases aircraft awareness for both crewmembers. We misidentified the problem, it was not how do we get rid of the pilots up front who make mistakes, the problem was how do we create an environment to surround the pilot with more information than he could hope to use in to lower his/her ignorance of a problem. That allows both pilots to evaluate and decide in a concurrent manner, independent processors if you will. However I haven't seen, yet, any tool created by the engineers out there that increases redundant and independent evaluative decision making.

I've had the opportunity to work with avionics people from Rockwell Collins, Honeywell, Hamilton Sundstrand, before I got into flying airplanes in exchange for money, as well as going to a college that teaches the newest brood of engineers, and I have found the idea of a single pilot or no pilot cockpit is mostly on hold. There's always going to be push from someone who thinks they can get the idea to work but mainstream thinking has pushed that way, failed, and moved on to something that works very well.
 
There are many arguments against single pilot ops in transports, but to take it to a less human factors angle and perhaps something easier for some to get their head around, the bottom line is that the difference from two to one is not the same as the difference from 3 to 2 or 4 to 2. Use an analogy of powerplants:

4 motors, lose one, small performance loss, but not issue making any climb gradients.
3 motors, same deal, not an issue.
2 motors, lose one and now that one remaining engine must have enough power to make all the gradients (which is why you have so much extra performance with both running).

You can't build a big enough engine to be safe with just one if that one fails.
 
I wouldn't worry about it so much.

Read a couple of introductory paragraphs on "Threat and Error Management" and it'll open some eyes about the viability of SPO.
 
Link to video interview: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50147207n

Surprised nobody posted this link of Capt. Sully being interviewed by CBS regarding new research the airlines are doing.

Capt. Sully says he doesn't see why the airline would want this, except for money, and that if it's because of a pilot shortage that their isn't a shortage, "There is not a pilot shortage right now, and their won't be if the airlines can pay more than starvation level entry level wages."

IMHO... Money is the bottom line after all. The airlines will move towards this route with redundancies in place to increase safety, and mitigate public's concerns. May not happen until the year 2050/2060, but it WILL happen. People had fears and concerns with fly-by-wire too during its infancy.


If someone is waiting for the airlines to pay more than what's offered they may be waiting a long time. The regional airlines are no different than 30 years ago in which they can go away just as easy as they appeared. Everyone doesn't have the right or easy access to air travel.
 
As far as I understand the theory behind these things, the great advantage isn't the second set of eyes/hands or even the second brain. It's the psychology of taking short cuts/doing stuff you shouldn't in front of a peer.

Now, obviously, I have thousands and thousands of hours of single pilot operations, so I can't think they're all THAT unsafe. But with that said, not everyone is as totally awesome as I am, and I do believe that there's something to be said for that psychological aspect. Regardless, it doesn't seem like there would be a huge savings in having one vs. two meat missiles on the flight deck...
 
If airliners are so ready for UAVs then why don't we have UFTs (Unmanned Freight Trains), yet?
 
We do.
 

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Iran took control of a drone with our best technology on it and landed it, why would we want to put the same system in place on a airliner.
 
Iran took control of a drone with our best technology on it and landed it, why would we want to put the same system in place on a airliner.


Same reason why electronics should be turned off during T/O and landings.... A terrorist, and those got-damn evil Iranians might take over the Auto Pilot system of the next airliner you or your neighbors are on :ooh: :sarcasm: Ohh the fear, Ohh the horror.


There will be a 1 pilot system long before a transition to a drone (no pilot in cockpit) system. Even then, I'm sure a systems operator/monitoring personnel will be onboard (Safe Guarding), so all your fears are null.
 
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