Canada finds the solution to high av gas!!!!

ozone

Well-Known Member
:banghead:If someone can PLEASE explain the logic, i would love to hear it....:banghead:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/08/28/airline.vests.ap/index.html

"TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- An official with Air Canada's regional carrier Jazz says the airline is removing life vests from all its planes to save weight and fuel.
Jazz spokeswoman Manon Stuart said Thursday that Transport Canada regulations allow airlines to use flotation devices instead of life vests, provided the planes remain within 50 miles of shore.
Safety cards in the seat pockets of Jazz aircraft now direct passengers to use the seat cushions as flotation devices.
Stuart says Jazz is a transcontinental carrier that doesn't fly over the ocean.
Jazz planes do fly over the Great Lakes and along the Eastern seaboard from Halifax, Nova Scotia, to Boston, Massachusetts, to New York.
Stuart says all of Jazz's flights operate within 50 miles from shore. She says the airline operates 880 flights daily to 85 destinations in North America and says the number of flights that operate over water are minimal.
A commercial-style life vest weighs roughly a pound (half a kilogram), meaning about 50 pounds (25 kilograms) would be saved by removing them from a Dash-8 aircraft with 50 seats. "
 

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
...pretty much every US carrier uses flotation devices (seat cushions) and not life vests. So this is consistent with everyone else.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
We don't carry them in the CRJ 200 or 700, other than for crew and infants. I don't know how big Jazz's fleet is, but here, with 50 planes that is (and I'm rounding off here) a savings of (50lbs X 500 flights a day X 356 days) 9,125,000lbs a year. Seems like a pretty good deal to me.
 

AMH

Well-Known Member
I feel a regulation on flight case weight and rollaboard bulk mandated by the companies coming' on.
 

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
Something to consider, my flight case weighs 25 lbs, mostly jepp and ops manuals. We'll say 20 lbs of it is.

At my airline:
9 hours x 70 airplanes = 630 flight hours of utilization per day

For every 1000 lbs of weight lugged around, it burns 46 lbs of gas.

630 x 40 lbs (total) = 25,200 lbs per day, / 1000 = 25.2 x 46 = 1160 lbs per day.

1160 lbs / 6.7 lbs/gal = 173 gallons of fuel per day to haul our flight books around.

173 gallons per day x 365 days/week x $4/gal = $250,000 per year to haul books around in fuel alone...
 

flyguy

Well-Known Member
Something to consider, my flight case weighs 25 lbs, mostly jepp and ops manuals. We'll say 20 lbs of it is.

At my airline:
9 hours x 70 airplanes = 630 flight hours of utilization per day

For every 1000 lbs of weight lugged around, it burns 46 lbs of gas.

630 x 40 lbs (total) = 25,200 lbs per day, / 1000 = 25.2 x 46 = 1160 lbs per day.

1160 lbs / 6.7 lbs/gal = 173 gallons of fuel per day to haul our flight books around.

173 gallons per day x 365 days/week x $4/gal = $250,000 per year to haul books around in fuel alone...
Sounds like a good argument, but I'm sure EFB subscriptions would cost the airline waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than $250K per year
 

flyguy

Well-Known Member
What about gym memberships? :)


Or maybe Jenny Craig.
Ok, well lests say that same airline with a fleet of 70 would have roughly 300 crews of 2 pilots and (unless they are 1900s or similar) at least one flight attendant also.

So that 3 crewmembers times rougly 300 crews for a fleet of 70 planes, that's 900 crewmembers times, we'll say $25/month for gym memberships is $22500 per month times 12 months is 270K per year. That's not gonna work either.

But, if they made the cremembers pay for thier gym membership, then it is feasible. So we effectively cut their pay since they have a gym membership that will be payroll deducted. Hmmmmm......while we are at it, we can just cut their pay and bennefits. That will offset the cost of fuel. And maybe we can raise fares too.......no, nevermind. That won't be necessary. And maybe the CEO can take only a $5 million instead of $7 million. Hey that would save $2 million as opposed to a quarter million in fuel savings.......nah. That's not necessary either. :D

Hey I'm starting to think like a CEO. Time for my 7 figure bonus since I did the math for ya'll :D
 

AMH

Well-Known Member
What if we did away with the gym membership idea and legalized methamphe..... nah- that won't work either.
 

VF-213

New Member
Its Risk Management. On our ETOPS EOW ac we stripped out any additional safety equipment not mandated by law. As I've been told...if you add it and it screws up, even though its not required you've assumed additional liability.

I know this is predominantly a RJ board but I'm surprised how much Air Canada Jazz (their Regional arm) pilots get paid. I owned a crashpad near ORD a couple years ago and I had a Jazz DH8 guy renting (had a girlfriend in the area) and I ran a credit check... 72k, 5 years on the job.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
I know this is predominantly a RJ board but I'm surprised how much Air Canada Jazz (their Regional arm) pilots get paid. I owned a crashpad near ORD a couple years ago and I had a Jazz DH8 guy renting (had a girlfriend in the area) and I ran a credit check... 72k, 5 years on the job.
I don't know how long ago this was, but with a 3 year upgrade thrown in, that's pretty normal for regional land. Maybe not some of the smaller (and now not so small) prop operators, but that seems on the money for an RJ operation.
 

esw2005

Well-Known Member
To offset the cost of high fuel just come up with a nation wide avaition tax...every working citizen has to pay a percentage no matter if they fly or not.......:rolleyes: I kid I kid I kid....I sound like a loon or a democrat, not sure which one
 

xpanterica

New Member
Sounds like a good argument, but I'm sure EFB subscriptions would cost the airline waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than $250K per year
"One would think that we could realize a big savings by not having to use paper jepps. However, Jeppesen charges the same amount of money for electronic data as they do our paper subscriptions."

Pulled from my company's website's Q&A section.
 

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
My company said the same thing, they were cost neutral...FWIW. Also I wonder how much weight the EFB's add, and if you can indeed put the ops manual and stuff on them as well. What would be nice is a searchable PDF of the Flight Ops Manual and Flight Crew Manual. No more endless searching to see what oxygen generators are allowed or how many pets can be on board under who's discretion!!!!
 

minitour

New Member
I've never seen them. Guessing they're considerably lighter?
My EFB is 3 pounds. The only thing you would have to have on board for air carrier is the AFM, two EFBs and your enroute charts binder(s) (included in Jeppview subscription). For Part 91, you don't need 2 EFBs.

For air carrier, there's usually a "break in period" of sorts. 6 months with the paper on board as a backup. Once you've gotten through that 6 months without any problems, your POI removes the requirement and the paper gets pitched.

Update via CD-ROM. Oh, yeah you'd need your external CD Rom drive on board too.

My company said the same thing, they were cost neutral...FWIW. Also I wonder how much weight the EFB's add, and if you can indeed put the ops manual and stuff on them as well. What would be nice is a searchable PDF of the Flight Ops Manual and Flight Crew Manual. No more endless searching to see what oxygen generators are allowed or how many pets can be on board under who's discretion!!!!
It's actually considerably less once you get past initial acquisition cost. Less so for europe/international, but for US/N. America it's very inexpensive to do an EFB.

Yes, you can put all of your manuals on your EFB. MEL, GOM/FOM, W&B, Perf #s, Manifestststs, etc.

So, remove your big binders, put two 3 pound laptops onboard and call it a day.

-mini
 

tonyw

Well-Known Member
So, remove your big binders, put two 3 pound laptops onboard and call it a day.

-mini
And no more having to constantly take old pages out and put new ones in.

How many trees have been killed by updating charts?
 
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