I'm a CFII. I know I can do instrument instruction in a multi (5 hours in make and model) with out an MEI but heres the question.....can I sign someone off? The question stems from the single engine approach, not sure if I can do that either without the MEI. Anybody done this?
Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI?
- Thread starter CFI4life
- Start date
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
Yeah that sounds fishy..... I have recnetly heard something about being able to do an IPC without being an MEI. But really that seems weird to me as well.
Yeah that sounds fishy..... I have recnetly heard something about being able to do an IPC without being an MEI. But really that seems weird to me as well.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
What do the regs say?
What do the regs say?
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
§ 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.
(f) Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.
When signing someone off you are only saying that they have received the training required and believe that they are competent. So...... I think I just answered my own question. They question about doing simulated SE approaches still remains though.
§ 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.
(f) Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.
When signing someone off you are only saying that they have received the training required and believe that they are competent. So...... I think I just answered my own question. They question about doing simulated SE approaches still remains though.
400A
New Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:
(a) Hours of training. In any 24-consecutive-hour period, a flight instructor may not conduct more than 8 hours of flight training.
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and
(2) If appropriate, a type rating.
(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:
(a) Hours of training. In any 24-consecutive-hour period, a flight instructor may not conduct more than 8 hours of flight training.
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and
(2) If appropriate, a type rating.
(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
I think you can.
Obviously this guy needs to already be an multi-private and you teach him no multi-engine stuff.
If you teach him only instrument stuff for an instrument exam, you are golden in my book, but I would call your DPE first.
I think you can.
Obviously this guy needs to already be an multi-private and you teach him no multi-engine stuff.
If you teach him only instrument stuff for an instrument exam, you are golden in my book, but I would call your DPE first.
Blip16
Well-Known Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
could be ok, because all you are doing is evaluating. and IPC isn't like a BFR, an IPC is a test. now if the person FUBAR's the SE approach, well then you can't do anything legally for him except find him someone else to finish the IPC
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
FWIW, my take is that if the FAA says that you can give the training, then it's only consistent that you can endorse the checkride. (Of course my take won't get you a cup of coffee as a gas station, let alone a Starbucks.)
In this case the regs don't help much since there have been inconsistent interpretations of the language.
FWIW, my take is that if the FAA says that you can give the training, then it's only consistent that you can endorse the checkride. (Of course my take won't get you a cup of coffee as a gas station, let alone a Starbucks.)
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
I think im gonna sign him off, and if it bounces back ill let ya know! should be interesting.
I think im gonna sign him off, and if it bounces back ill let ya know! should be interesting.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
Thats what I'd do. The person has a multi license and all your doing is the instrument. You have a CFII with a multi commercial. Thats all you need.
Thats what I'd do. The person has a multi license and all your doing is the instrument. You have a CFII with a multi commercial. Thats all you need.
400A
New Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
I don't know fellas:
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:
(a) Hours of training. In any 24-consecutive-hour period, a flight instructor may not conduct more than 8 hours of flight training.
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and
(2) If appropriate, a type rating.
(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.
I remember when this reg didn't have the category and class thing apply to your CFI. When it changed it caused a lot of confusion. I think, if I am understanding the question correctly, that in order to give instrument instruction in a twin, you must have an MEI, regardless of the level of certificate the "student" holds.
I don't know fellas:
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:
(a) Hours of training. In any 24-consecutive-hour period, a flight instructor may not conduct more than 8 hours of flight training.
(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and
(2) If appropriate, a type rating.
(c) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument flight training for the issuance of an instrument rating or a type rating not limited to VFR must hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.
I remember when this reg didn't have the category and class thing apply to your CFI. When it changed it caused a lot of confusion. I think, if I am understanding the question correctly, that in order to give instrument instruction in a twin, you must have an MEI, regardless of the level of certificate the "student" holds.
tgrayson
New Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
The FAA parses the sentence this way:
The FAA parses the sentence this way:
- an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and,
- a pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.
400A
New Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
Are you sure? My post is a copy and past from the regs from the FAA website.
I ask because I am not sure myself, haven't instructed in quite a few years.
Are you sure? My post is a copy and past from the regs from the FAA website.
I ask because I am not sure myself, haven't instructed in quite a few years.
tgrayson
New Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
I know it is, but I was formatting it to show how the FAA interprets the regulation. I've posted their statements to that effect in a number of threads over the past few years; if you're interested, you can search on the topic.
Once that fact is pointed out, the regulation actually supports that, IMO. The sentence is more awkward if you try to interpret it to mean that you need ME on your flight instructor certificate as well as pilot certificate. But it's a lousy sentence either way.
I know it is, but I was formatting it to show how the FAA interprets the regulation. I've posted their statements to that effect in a number of threads over the past few years; if you're interested, you can search on the topic.
Once that fact is pointed out, the regulation actually supports that, IMO. The sentence is more awkward if you try to interpret it to mean that you need ME on your flight instructor certificate as well as pilot certificate. But it's a lousy sentence either way.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
What tgrayson is referring to is the way the FAA interprets it. Officially.
If you head over to http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=EBookContents and drill down to Volume 2, Chapter 5, Section 11, you will find the following in paragraph 5-503:
==============================
According to part 61, flight instructors who hold an “INSTRUMENT-AIRPLANE” rating only on their flight instructor certificate are authorized to give instrument flight instruction in single- and/or multiengine airplanes for instrument certification, provided they hold single- and/or multiengine ratings on their pilot certificate.
***
Instructors with ratings limited to instrument may not give instrument flight instruction to students who do not hold category and class ratings in the aircraft used. This would be instruction for the addition of a rating that conveys other than instrument privileges.
==============================
Your copy of the regs is correct - they haven't changed in years.
What tgrayson is referring to is the way the FAA interprets it. Officially.
If you head over to http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=EBookContents and drill down to Volume 2, Chapter 5, Section 11, you will find the following in paragraph 5-503:
==============================
According to part 61, flight instructors who hold an “INSTRUMENT-AIRPLANE” rating only on their flight instructor certificate are authorized to give instrument flight instruction in single- and/or multiengine airplanes for instrument certification, provided they hold single- and/or multiengine ratings on their pilot certificate.
***
Instructors with ratings limited to instrument may not give instrument flight instruction to students who do not hold category and class ratings in the aircraft used. This would be instruction for the addition of a rating that conveys other than instrument privileges.
==============================
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
I think this one makes the most sense. Also one would think if you can train someone why couldn't you sign them off. "Hey student, I know we've done all the training required for you rating, but I need you to fly with this MEI over here for 3 hours and he gets all the credit". If that is the case I cant say I would be surprised, but very annoyed. :crazy: Thanks alot everyone for your help!
I think this one makes the most sense. Also one would think if you can train someone why couldn't you sign them off. "Hey student, I know we've done all the training required for you rating, but I need you to fly with this MEI over here for 3 hours and he gets all the credit". If that is the case I cant say I would be surprised, but very annoyed. :crazy: Thanks alot everyone for your help!
tgrayson
New Member
Re: Can I sign off on a M-E instrument check with out an MEI
We already told you that. If the FSDO had said differently, they would have been in error.
We already told you that. If the FSDO had said differently, they would have been in error.