C-54/DC-4 aerial demo

[MikeD]

Pretty neat.

Love the Big Doug's. Nicely done low approach to go around, tight pattern, gear down, and #3 and #4 shut down, go around with full asymetric thrust..... and #3/#4 restarted on the go around climb back into the pattern, while cleaning up the plane for climb. Well done.

As sturdy and robust as these planes are, it's no wonder they were a staple of the US aerial firefighting community for so long from the 1970s to the early 2000s, and even retired before their time as a kneejerk reaction due to a couple of tankers disintegrating in midair in 2003 due to age and fatigue, a PB4Y-2 and a C-130A. The big Dougs such as the DC-4/C-54, DC-6/C-118, and the DC-7 were far more sturdy airframes for this role, as they proved for many decades.

 

[trafficinsight]

I kept expecting that to end in a fireball.

 

[MikeD]

I kept expecting that to end in a fireball.

A little bit of airmanship, SA, and staying far ahead of the aircraft with good maneuver planning, goes a long way. Namely in terms of knowing your aircraft's true limits and touching the edge of those limits, but never exceeding them. Hence, no fireball.

 

[trafficinsight]

A little bit of airmanship, SA, and staying far ahead of the aircraft with good maneuver planning, goes a long way. Namely in terms of knowing your aircraft's true limits and touching the edge of those limits, but never exceeding them. Hence, no fireball.

It was impressive, don't get me wrong, but honestly? I think seeing an old airplane fly is enough really. You don't need to start hacking away at margins to impress me. It's an unpopular opinion, but it's all mine

 

[MikeD]

It was impressive, don't get me wrong, but honestly? I think seeing an old airplane fly is enough really. You don't need to start hacking away at margins to impress me. It's an unpopular opinion, but it's all mine

It's all good. He's just demonstrating the capabilities of that aircraft through a fine demonstration of finesse. Agree, it's impressive.

 

[trafficinsight]

I think that part of the issue here is perceptions about where the margins, exactly, are, and how big they are.

The fact is, in the current-day airline/transport/"heavy" world, pilots live in a warm, chewy center of the flight envelope with pads to pads to pads before even seeing where the actual edges of that envelope live.

It's not so much that I don't like people finding the edges of the envelope, but that they do it in airplanes that are increasingly rare... and once they're gone we'll all be poorer for it. I do get that the video quality means that this likely took place in the 80's or 90's when you probably couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a DC-4 still in use.

I dunno, anyway, I'm not one of those ban airshows people, I promise.

 

[CFIscare]

It was impressive, don't get me wrong, but honestly? I think seeing an old airplane fly is enough really. You don't need to start hacking away at margins to impress me. It's an unpopular opinion, but it's all mine

 

[trafficinsight]

:stir:

 

[Tyler Pinkerton]

There are still some DC-7's flying as tankers even today

 

[MikeD]

There are still some DC-7's flying as tankers even today

That there are. Great plane!

 

[killbilly]

A little bit of airmanship, SA, and staying far ahead of the aircraft with good maneuver planning, goes a long way. Namely in terms of knowing your aircraft's true limits and touching the edge of those limits, but never exceeding them. Hence, no fireball.

Is it safe to say that planning ahead has a lot to do with it? I mean - do you think it would have been as smooth had #3 and #4 quit unexpectedly?

EDIT - In case it wasn't clear - I am asking this question in good faith and not to be provocative. I have exactly zero hours in multiengine airplanes and have no idea what the dynamics are like for the crew.

 

[MikeD]

Is it safe to say that planning ahead has a lot to do with it? I mean - do you think it would have been as smooth had #3 and #4 quit unexpectedly?

EDIT - In case it wasn't clear - I am asking this question in good faith and not to be provocative. I have exactly zero hours in multiengine airplanes and have no idea what the dynamics are like for the crew.

Yes. That's why I mentioned "good maneuver planning" as one of the factors you quoted. None of this should be anything done off the cuff.

 

[Lawman]

Is it safe to say that planning ahead has a lot to do with it? I mean - do you think it would have been as smooth had #3 and #4 quit unexpectedly?

EDIT - In case it wasn't clear - I am asking this question in good faith and not to be provocative. I have exactly zero hours in multiengine airplanes and have no idea what the dynamics are like for the crew.

In many ways it's like any other Motorsport or aerobatic performance, just with a much bigger piece of metal than people expect. Know your machine, work to learn where it will bite you, adjust as needed for the place you are using it and conditions.

Knowing your track/arena/playground goes a long way to making a great demo and pushing the envelope safely. Even the Blues and T-birds as good and consistent as they are don't just go out there and slam the throttle forward screaming "Leroy Jenkins!" They spend hours chair flying, diagraming, table talking, and finally rehearsing. And that's why we (US) don't have anywhere near the mishap rates that aerial demos in other countries do.

Even when I'm taking guys out for training flights that aren't for demo there are places I'm comfortable getting what many would think is ridiculously low and fast because I know the yard and can stay far enough ahead of the aircraft and reconfirmed nothing changed since the last time I played there. Though it is funny first time I fly with one of my bosses that isn't nearly as experienced in that arena of flight and they go "holy mother of...!" As we come up to avoid a cow fence or range marker on a flight. And we do that because if I can get these guys comfortable doing it now they won't have to try and figure out how to do it while dodging bullets and talking on half a dozen radios.


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