Buying a Simulator - need opinions

moxiepilot

moxiepilot

Well-Known Member
I'll be proposing new equipment to the boss and could use input on what you would want as an instructor/student/GA needing IPC etc.

I have all the arguments for the proposition with regard to cost analysis and benefits, so what I'm looking for would be which would you want to play in or what do you like.

Right now I'm looking at:

Frasca's TruFlight or Mentor - Truflight has the capability of a dual platform for single or multi engine configuration, and a 210 or 170 degree wraparound screen. Mentor has a 100" screen and could have either analogue gauges or the G1000. TruFlight is about $200,000 and Mentor about $85,000. www.frasca.com

FlyIT - Pretty much the same as TruFlight cockpit. www.frasca.com

Precision Flight Controls Could either go with the desktop ($8,000) or the AATD modular flight deck ($100,000). I lean to the modular deck for realism and procedure vs. procedure www.flypfc.com

Elite - probably one of the most common PCATDs used for small operations about $8,000 but IMHO good for practicing procedures, low onn the realism. www.flyelite.com

Fidelity Flight Simulation 622i MOTUS - full motion sim. Useful for inducing spatial disorientation without being in actual. reconfigurable. waiting on cost estimate, probably in the $100 - 200,000 range. www.flightmotion.com


What would you want to play in?
 
I don't have experience with any of them but I thought the Frasca 141 was not a bad simulator. A bit sensitive but most sims are like that, i'm not sure if they even make them anymore but you might be able to pick one up used.
 
moxiepilot said:
I have all the arguments for the proposition with regard to cost analysis and benefits, so what I'm looking for would be which would you want to play in or what do you like.
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I don't rent sims to play in. That's what Microsoft Flight Simulator is for. When I rent a sim, it's for a specific purpose, so I rent the cheapest sim that meets that purpose.
 
The mentor has been pretty good to me, we have one with the wrap-around screen and while it is pretty cool, you can get the job done with a lot less. The 100 inch screen is more than adequate.
 
Cant go wrong with a Frasca True flight. They're a great procedures trainer. plus with an FTD you can log more hours towrds the IR (20) and commercial (50). That will bring down the cost for your students training, plus it will attract new customers since its hard to find an FTD to rent...at least where Im at.
 
Moxie,

If you get a Frasca 142 you could market a "Airnet Bridge Program." You could hire on some Airnet guys to "consult" for you to make your program realistic.

Don't let the RJ course operators get all the money. :D
 
Ian J said:
Moxie,

If you get a Frasca 142 you could market a "Airnet Bridge Program." You could hire on some Airnet guys to "consult" for you to make your program realistic.

Don't let the RJ course operators get all the money. :D
Click to expand...

you know....there's a million dollar idea..... :)
 
Here's my take on sims. The full motion ones at simuflite seem to break quite often, and they're way more than 100-200k (older as well, but it seems silly to add so much complexity when it's not really needed).

Get one that's fairly difficult to fly (if it was easy, why not put in an autopilot too, eh?) I think the 142, especially the newer ones, are pretty nice and have more than enough visual being that the majority of the flights will only see the ground when taking off and landing. The two we have don't break as much as you'd think for as much as they're used. That said, if the ones with the pretty visuals don't cost much more they could make circling approaches much easier.
 
I'd look at the regs and get whatever will give max benefit at min cost. I'd go with a PFC or Elite set up like a twin. The extra "realism" in the high end units comes at too high a cost and not enough added benefit in loggable time.

I guess it kinda depends on what you are using it for, though.
 
I'll chime in for another rec on the Frasca TruFlight. I helped our school purchase one awhile back and it has been fantastic since. Having the flexibility to change aircraft types is key. Saves on space!

Also on the occasion a problem pops up (it is a giant computer after all) Frasca tech support is quick and effective. I went out the factory and met Bob Frasca and lots of nice folks. Great operation!
 
We have an Elite RC-1 AATD. I think for the purpose (ability to re-configure it for multiple airplane models) and the cost of the asset, its a good bang for the buck solution.
 
You might want to approach it for the standpoint of rental price. Sure, the full motion sim would be more fun and it would gather the most attention (just like a twin does out on the flight line), but how much would you have to charge for an hour of rental time to pay for all those bells and whistles? We have an Elite at my school (flying club) and it is only $12/hr. (It's free if you don't log the time in your book.) We are looking into buying a new C-172 and G-1000 sim. (I'm not sure which brand, it's whatever Cessna sells with their new airplanes.) I7m not sure this will be the best option for us. While the G-1000 will be light years ahead of the Elite, we will have to charge much more when pilots rent it. My school rents C-172F/H/Ps for $70-80/hr, so that is the upper limit on what students will pay for a sim, if not less. I understand the value of a sim, but if my choices were an Elite for $12, a G-1000 sim for $40+, or an airplane for $70-80; I would get 10 hrs in the Elite and the rest of the time in an airplane. As an instructor I think that 10 hrs in the sim is sufficient to make the time in the airplane more economical. Having an advanced sim has the added luxury of being able to log more time in it toward advanced ratings, but I don't personally think that it is worth the higher cost of the advanced sim. If you can't get your pilots to rent at that higher price, then you be stuck with a big expensive albatross.
 
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