Breonna Taylor

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I think that Doug posted something out of frustration that the same the thing that often happens with cases like this happened again. And I think he posted something out of fear that the same thing could have happened to him at various points in his life. And I think he posted outside of the lav because too often the lav becomes a place where people who have no vested interest in something because they can't see it effecting them, can talk about a reality (or perceived reality) that they know nothing about, just to hear the sound of their own voice. And this issue, for @Derg and many others, is too important for that. He wasn't asking for your support, although I'm sure he'd welcome it. He was asking for your acceptance that this issue is real and visceral for him and many others.

And instead he got the normal dunce squad tap dancing around the actual issue either in an intentional effort to discredit Derg's own feelings about this, or in an attemp to further their own agenda.
This is a very high-quality post. One of the best things I've read in a while - and articulates much of what I've been thinking. Especially the bolded part. Intentional or not, that's what happens to people. A lot.
 

knot4u

Repeat Offender
I think that Doug posted something out of frustration that the same the thing that often happens with cases like this happened again. And I think he posted something out of fear that the same thing could have happened to him at various points in his life. And I think he posted outside of the lav because too often the lav becomes a place where people who have no vested interest in something because they can't see it effecting them, can talk about a reality (or perceived reality) that they know nothing about, just to hear the sound of their own voice. And this issue, for @Derg and many others, is too important for that. He wasn't asking for your support, although I'm sure he'd welcome it. He was asking for your acceptance that this issue is real and visceral for him and many others.

And instead he got the normal dunce squad tap dancing around the actual issue either in an intentional effort to discredit Derg's own feelings about this, or in an attemp to further their own agenda.
Thanks for telling me how Doug feels. How do you know how Doug feels?
 

Boris Badenov

Just running in to a burning house...
I’m pretty unhappy about the events surrounding Ms. Taylor’s death, as I outlined in a previous thread. I think the Metro Council banning no-knock warrants was a long-overdue move. But, as I mentioned in aforementioned thread, indicting these cops under current KY law was always going to be a long shot. They were there on a legal warrant (whether we like it or not, and put me firmly in the don’t like it camp), and they got shot at (I very likely would have shot at them, too...breaking down my door at midnight and...you’re the cops? Riiiiiight). What are you going to charge them with and expect a Grand Jury to indict? Looks like the answer is wanton endangerment (although I’m sure the prosecutor offered everything from Genocide to jay-walking).

I get being upset about her killing, I’m upset about it too. I do not get the surprise and indignation at the supposed “failure” to indict. A Grand Jury is not selected by the Prosecutor, it‘s a bunch Joe/Jane citizens like you and me. Their job was to look at the evidence and determine whether or not the evidence is sufficient to bring charges. They found enough evidence to return one indictment because the Law (in my estimation wrongly) didn’t prohibit unannounced, armed night time raids on the homes of suspected friends of suspected drug dealers.

On the bright side, it does now, at least in Louisville/Jefferson County. And that’s a win. To those who say “that’s not enough”, I fully agree. So let’s all get busy making the changes we would like to see the way that they were meant to be made. Vote.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
...either in an intentional effort to discredit Derg's own feelings about this, or in an attemp to further their own agenda.
Reason? I have no idea what you're asking.
You get one more chance at this and then I write you off as everything I imagine you probably are. Understand that that won't hurt you one bit, but it gives me the joy of proving my confirmation bias right.
 
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CFIscare

Well-Known Member
I’m pretty unhappy about the events surrounding Ms. Taylor’s death, as I outlined in a previous thread. I think the Metro Council banning no-knock warrants was a long-overdue move. But, as I mentioned in aforementioned thread, indicting these cops under current KY law was always going to be a long shot. They were there on a legal warrant (whether we like it or not, and put me firmly in the don’t like it camp), and they got shot at (I very likely would have shot at them, too...breaking down my door at midnight and...you’re the cops? Riiiiiight). What are you going to charge them with and expect a Grand Jury to indict? Looks like the answer is wanton endangerment (although I’m sure the prosecutor offered everything from Genocide to jay-walking).

I get being upset about her killing, I’m upset about it too. I do not get the surprise and indignation at the supposed “failure” to indict. A Grand Jury is not selected by the Prosecutor, it‘s a bunch Joe/Jane citizens like you and me. Their job was to look at the evidence and determine whether or not the evidence is sufficient to bring charges. They found enough evidence to return one indictment because the Law (in my estimation wrongly) didn’t prohibit unannounced, armed night time raids on the homes of suspected friends of suspected drug dealers.

On the bright side, it does now, at least in Louisville/Jefferson County. And that’s a win. To those who say “that’s not enough”, I fully agree. So let’s all get busy making the changes we would like to see the way that they were meant to be made. Vote.
I agree with everything you said but to clarify, the police were not there on a "no-knock" warrant. While originally issued as a "no-knock" it was later changed to a "knock and announce" prior to the raid. It has been confirmed the knock was made, but how effective the announce portion was is up to debate.
 

Boris Badenov

Just running in to a burning house...
I agree with everything you said but to clarify, the police were not there on a "no-knock" warrant. While originally issued as a "no-knock" it was later changed to a "knock and announce" prior to the raid. It has been confirmed the knock was made, but how effective the announce portion was is up to debate.
Quite so, my mistake. Although they're functionally the same thing when the "announce" portion comes at the same time as the "rip off the front door" part.
 

knot4u

Repeat Offender
You get one more chance at this and then I write you off as everything I imagine you probably are. Understand that that won't hurt you one bit, but it gives me the joy of proving my confirmation bias right.
That completely discounts my opinion. You assume some sort of high ground without any discussion, it leads me to believe that you're not very bright and blah, blah, blah. People like you are a perfect example why I'm trying to escape aviation, just another alpha that's a lot more bark than bite. Fine. Fix it yourself.
 

CFIscare

Well-Known Member
Quite so, my mistake. Although they're functionally the same thing when the "announce" portion comes at the same time as the "rip off the front door" part.
Agreed, but in fairness, I have no idea what time frame elapsed from the initial knock to the entry being made.

On a related note, I just don't understand how body cams are not/were not mandatory, especially during a raid such as this.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
Why would that give you joy?
Because snap judgments are something we do all the time, and to be able to verify that the judgment was in fact correct after the rest of the data comes in later on builds a higher confidence in making a quick decision in the first place.

If in the summer you look outside first thing in the morning and look at the sky and decide you don't need to take an umbrella with you, but then get rained on walking to the store every day, in the winter you probably aren't going to decide whether or not to put a snow scraper in your car by looking at the sky. But if you are right about the umbrella...
 

Boris Badenov

Just running in to a burning house...
Seemed more like looking at your neighbor, deciding he's a big poppyhead, then rejoicing when he confirms your assessment (in your judgment). Which seems different to me.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I think that Doug posted something out of frustration that the same the thing that often happens with cases like this happened again. And I think he posted something out of fear that the same thing could have happened to him at various points in his life. And I think he posted outside of the lav because too often the lav becomes a place where people who have no vested interest in something because they can't see it effecting them, can talk about a reality (or perceived reality) that they know nothing about, just to hear the sound of their own voice. And this issue, for @Derg and many others, is too important for that. He wasn't asking for your support, although I'm sure he'd welcome it. He was asking for your acceptance that this issue is real and visceral for him and many others.

And instead he got the normal dunce squad tap dancing around the actual issue either in an intentional effort to discredit Derg's own feelings about this, or in an attemp to further their own agenda.

Thankfully we live in a country where emotions aren’t used to convict someone.
 

FlySooner9

Well-Known Member
Everyone seems to forget the cops were fired at and one was shot. You honestly expect the cops or anybody for that matter to not return fire? If you want to be mad at somebody blame the judge that signed the warrant or the drug dealer that listed her address as his home.
It’s a tragedy that she lost her life this way, it was not a crime and especially not a hate crime.
Nobody seems to care about the children who are getting killed almost every weekend in Chicago gang wars....
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
Everyone seems to forget the cops were fired at and one was shot. You honestly expect the cops or anybody for that matter to not return fire? If you want to be mad at somebody blame the judge that signed the warrant or the drug dealer that listed her address as his home.
It’s a tragedy that she lost her life this way, it was not a crime and especially not a hate crime.
Nobody seems to care about the children who are getting killed almost every weekend in Chicago gang wars....
Sorry, if ANYONE is breaking down doors in the middle of the night they should expect to be shot at.
 
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