Brakes check on Taxi Checklist ?

Hoof Hearted

New Member
I would like to get some input on the way your operation handles the " Brakes " portion on the taxi checklist. I know this is very simple but someone opened my eyes the other day and I would like to do some more research first and here I am.
I was flying with an ex airline guy and he said they would apply brake pressure and look at the brake pressure gage BEFORE taxiing the aircraft. This would alleviate testing the brakes whilst taxiing.
Anyone else have anything productive to add to this?
I for one am getting back into my airplane brake schematics....:rolleyes:
I guess I should include that I am a corporate pilot flying Hawker 900 XP and G550.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
We've got a brake temp monitoring system (BTMS) on the CRJ that we use to do the check. If it's in the green and decreasing, you're good. If it's deferred, there's some MEL procedures to go through.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
Where I fly it is SOP that the captain does lightly tap the brakes after we first start moving after being disconnected from the tug. About 20% of the captains do it. Aircraft is an Embraer product.
 

Turbo Mcfloat

Well-Known Member
Captain checks by tapping brakes and looking at the pressure gauge after start up before we move, and FO checks his brakes during taxi with a light tap to register pressure
 

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
Man the FAA must freak when they observe one of our flights, we have a completely different culture here than you guys are describing.

This would alleviate testing the brakes whilst taxiing.
On a side note why do you need to test the brakes while taxing? Wouldn't the process of simply using the brakes while taxing tell you if they were working or not? Seems a bit...redundant.
 

Hoof Hearted

New Member
I do see your point, however, on our taxi check the brakes are required to be checked. As we ususally call for this checklist soon after brake release or in some cases after clear of obstacles in a tight spaces, I have always lightly stepped on brakes to feel them grab while observing the pressure gage. The gentleman I was flying with brought up a point that I am interested in following up with some more input. Already, I can see that different operators have different approaches.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
We don't have a taxi check. We don't test the brakes while taxiing. I imagine that the captain would notice he doesn't have brakes pretty quick though. Sometimes you can go overboard with all the checklists.
 

Copperhed51

Well-Known Member
Generally brakes were among the first things checked during the taxi check at my airline. Captain checks his/hers and then says "your brakes" and I check mine and give them back to the captain. We don't have a specific gauge to tell us if there is pressure getting to the brakes so we have to check them that way and you can't tell if they're working just from pedal feedback since it's brake-by-wire. Also, we do the handoff because the brake system on either side is independent and while the captain's brakes might be working during taxi, you would never know the FO's had failed until you're on the runway handing off the controls for takeoff.

So I'd say the appropriate procedure can vary significantly from aircraft to aircraft.
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
On the Saab at CJC we have a taxi checklist, which does not include any brake checks. Our after start checklist ends with a check of the hydraulics. Im guessing its maybe something I have never noticed that most captains check on their own since its not on any of our checklists. I can count the number of times on 1 hand that I have even pressed on the brakes.

On a side note our taxi-checklist will soon be going away, hopefully. I hate the fact that we are moving and Im looking down at a checklist, and that Im also bothering the captain with altimeter settings, verifying speeds are bugged, and just making sure other things are set right. This should all be done before we even move. I have flown with one captain who does the taxi checklist before we even move, and I thought that was a pretty good idea.
 

Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
At DL, no brake check, that is what MX line checks are for. Taxi CL consists of flight control check and verifying correct flap setting.
 

Rocketman99

Frozen Guppy Manipulator
Our after start checklist ends with a check of the hydraulics. Im guessing its maybe something I have never noticed that most captains check on their own since its not on any of our checklists. I can count the number of times on 1 hand that I have even pressed on the brakes.
Funny you mention that... Oddly enough, in the expanded version of the after start flows on the Saab, under "after second engine start is stabilized" it directs the CA to release the parking brake and for both the CA and FO to check brake pedal pressure. Unless they've changed the CFM in the last few months and removed that, I don't know if my old Saab CFM is still current.
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Funny you mention that... Oddly enough, in the expanded version of the after start flows on the Saab, under "after second engine start is stabilized" it directs the CA to release the parking brake and for both the CA and FO to check brake pedal pressure. Unless they've changed the CFM in the last few months and removed that, I don't know if my old Saab CFM is still current.
Interesting.

Im sure the checklists are current. No chance they have revised those in awhile. There is so much stuff at CJC that is not done as it is said to be done in the CFM.

How many times did I do a flaps 15 take off in the sim? Never. How many in real life? About 5 or 6. Pretty bad when you are 5 minutes prior to take off and you and the Captain are trying to figure out the call outs for a procedure you have never done.

My first time touching the brakes is pretty funny. In the sim, we weren't really taught how to slow down after landing. So we would just throw it into reverse, jam brakes on full force and that was that. The 2nd leg of IOE I had 2 check airmen with me. So I was nervious and it was my first time as the PF. We are coming in to Charlottesville and as I seem to remember my approach was fairly decent, except for the 500' gain when flaps 15 were added. We touch down on the runway and what do I do? I struggle to bring the PLs over the gate and I lightly tap on the brakes, with the intent to jam them on. Just as I go to tap them the CA shouts to get off the brakes. I bring the PLs over the gate and throw it into reverse, which we didnt need. The CA apologized after we taxiied off the runway, he forgot to tell me not to touch the brakes after landing because he had been doing CA upgrades for awhile and hadnt had a new FO. He went on to tell me that you basically never touch the brakes as an FO and that you rarely even need brakes.

I just remember how even that 1/2 second tap of the brakes at what must have been just under 100kias, our heads flew forward. Haha

Since then I have only ever touched the brakes when the captain gets up to take a piss during a single engine turn, and once the other night to see how the brakes felt in the snow.
 

Hoof Hearted

New Member
Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. From what I heard here there are several of accomplishing this check. I'm going to talk to the MX people at FSI and get their feedback as well and then proceed from there. You know, it's kind of funny, for over 15 years I have done something one way, then all of a sudden, someone mentions a different way of doing it and I like it better, a simple thing like touching the brakes......
Secondly, it is in our taxi checklist so we will need to keep checking.
Thanks again for all your input...
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
With the CRJ and the BTMS, the brake check is kinda redundant. If your brake pressure's low, it's gonna flash a big yellow light in your face. Plus, the thing likes to taxi fast anyway. So, if the brakes are shot, you're gonna know real quick. :)
 

falconvalley

Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
On the KC-135, both types of brake checks are done. Guess the USAF can never be too sure!
 

SoCalAprch

Well-Known Member
The Captain calls "flaps 9 check your brakes" after we start moving the FO taps them and on the before TO check it calls for "Brakes and Temps".
 

Copperhed51

Well-Known Member
On the 170 it's part of the taxi check..."brake temps are in the green"...no pressing of the pedals at any time..
While that confirms that the brakes are at a safe temp for a rejected takeoff, it doesn't confirm that all 4 brake pedals are functioning properly. Maybe the 170 has a self diagnostic system for that sort of thing but as far as I know, the 145 does not. Our taxi checklist contains "Brakes........Checked L,R" and our before takeoff checklist has "Brake temps........Green". It seems to me that either your company's checklist is deficient, my company's is overkill, or the 170 takes care of this for you.
 
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