Bombardier Q500?

RightSeatGirl

RightSeatGirl

KA'PLAH BITCHES!
So a pal was telling me that Bombardier is now considering a new version of the Q. Instead of stretching the 400, they would shrink it. Making what would be an updated 300, but with 400 engines and updated systems, avionics etc..He also said they were going to put supplemental emergency o2 for pax so the thing could cruise in the 30's. A 50 seat Dash with 400 engines could probably keep up with a CRJ-200. He said he read this in Aviation Week & Space Tech, but I couldn't find anything on it. Has anyone else heard of this? I will say that Bombardier set precedent for this type of move in the past with the 200 so it certainly sounds plausible.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
So a pal was telling me that Bombardier is now considering a new version of the Q. Instead of stretching the 400, they would shrink it. Making what would be an updated 300, but with 400 engines and updated systems, avionics etc..He also said they were going to put supplemental emergency o2 for pax so the thing could cruise in the 30's. A 50 seat Dash with 400 engines could probably keep up with a CRJ-200. He said he read this in Aviation Week & Space Tech, but I couldn't find anything on it. Has anyone else heard of this? I will say that Bombardier set precedent for this type of move in the past with the 200 so it certainly sounds plausible.
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I haven't heard anything about that but I know that P&W is currently testing a turbo prop engine at their facility in BDL for what would be the equivilant of a 90 seat turbo prop. Whether or not another company is developing that plane or not I don't know but P&W obviously sees that there is a market for it.
 
Interesting, but isn't the PW150A already de-rated for the Q400? Meaning that if they did a 90-100 seat stretch would it need a bigger engine?
 
RightSeatGirl said:
So a pal was telling me that Bombardier is now considering a new version of the Q. Instead of stretching the 400, they would shrink it. Making what would be an updated 300, but with 400 engines and updated systems, avionics etc..He also said they were going to put supplemental emergency o2 for pax so the thing could cruise in the 30's. A 50 seat Dash with 400 engines could probably keep up with a CRJ-200. He said he read this in Aviation Week & Space Tech, but I couldn't find anything on it. Has anyone else heard of this? I will say that Bombardier set precedent for this type of move in the past with the 200 so it certainly sounds plausible.
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If they can make something that has the speed of a 50 seat RJ, with the economy of a turboprop, they'll make at least a billiondy dollars off it.
 
jtrain609 said:
If they can make something that has the speed of a 50 seat RJ, with the economy of a turboprop, they'll make at least a billiondy dollars off it.
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They are getting close man... The Q400 isn't that much slower than the ERJ145, the biggest difference between the two is the range. The erj has a few hundred mile on the Q400. I think the reason you don't see more turbo props today is because of public perception of props.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
They are getting close man... The Q400 isn't that much slower than the ERJ145, the biggest difference between the two is the range. The erj has a few hundred mile on the Q400. I think the reason you don't see more turbo props today is because of public perception of props.
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I think the "perception of props" argument is something pilots say to themselves, I don't think that's a real issue. Airlines will fly the aircraft that give them the highest rate of return.

Airlines are here to make money, not make people feel good about going from point A to point B.

And the Q blasts past the ERJ on some routes, it just depends on the range. The Q can get up to altitude and cruising faster, where we spend forever climbing at .65 only to start to descend a few minutes later on some segments.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
So a pal was telling me that Bombardier is now considering a new version of the Q. Instead of stretching the 400, they would shrink it. Making what would be an updated 300, but with 400 engines and updated systems, avionics etc..He also said they were going to put supplemental emergency o2 for pax so the thing could cruise in the 30's. A 50 seat Dash with 400 engines could probably keep up with a CRJ-200. He said he read this in Aviation Week & Space Tech, but I couldn't find anything on it. Has anyone else heard of this? I will say that Bombardier set precedent for this type of move in the past with the 200 so it certainly sounds plausible.
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A 300 re hung with the q400 motors would be a beast to fly.. on the q we are running close to a 2000shp derate. 30% power still gives us 200kts + they honestky might be a bit too much for the 50 seat airframe. Above 250 knots, cleaning up the airframe does a lot more for you than more power will, so I could see them cleaning up the 300 s wing, fuselage, tail etc.
 
They were going ahead with plans to "look into" the Q400 X this past year I thought I read on avnews. That was going to be the 90 seat ultra mega whacker. Not sure what came of that.

As for the -500 or a -300 with the PW150A engines I do not think it would keep up with the CRJ unless they made many changes to include aerodynamic. Granted it is down low below 15K but the only thing that keeps the -400 from going 300 knots IAS is the barber pole and much more so around 10K where you are at 50% TQ to do 250. I have heard many iterations but I believe the culprit is the windshield and possibly the leading edges. Something to do with bird strikes. I have heard this many times just have never cared enough to remember which one was the culprit.

With that being said, IF they put the PW150A engine on a smaller body AND they can fix whatever is driving the barber poll so low then it is possible to a certain point.


As for the -400 being as fast as an ERJ: Maybe segment times it certainly is or down in the low teens but other than that it is not very close. While the ERJ climbs at .65 the Q400 cruises at .61 on a good day. I believe the comparison is likely a Q200 is to a Q400 as a Q400 is to an ERJ. Each is about 70 knots faster than the last.
 
Yeah, I was wondering about the structural limitations. I imagine the wing spar would probably have to be beefed up a bit as well. I wonder if little winglets would help the overall aerodynamics. I also wonder if a slightly swept wing could work on a future Dash..
 
This is the only swept wing turboprop I can think of.

Or the only one that matters, at least :)

tu-95%20001.jpg
 
jtrain609 said:
I think the "perception of props" argument is something pilots say to themselves, I don't think that's a real issue. Airlines will fly the aircraft that give them the highest rate of return.
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Why do you think DAL got rid of the ATR's? They said it made them far more money per seat than the CRJ did but because their traveling public complained about it and how it wasn't a jet...well they axed it.
 
The newest product with the Q brand will be a 19 person twin engine, they will use the PW150A engines on an airframe of 17,000-18,000 lbs. It's likely it will have no bathroom or FA or autopilot.
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
Why do you think DAL got rid of the ATR's? They said it made them far more money per seat than the CRJ did but because their traveling public complained about it and how it wasn't a jet...well they axed it.
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Right, but someday the investors will demand the company start making money again.

I am curious pilotdude, the customers also demand customer service and on time flights, why did Delta only listen to them on the thing that makes them less money? Seems odd to me.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Right, but someday the investors will demand the company start making money again.

I am curious pilotdude, the customers also demand customer service and on time flights, why did Delta only listen to them on the thing that makes them less money? Seems odd to me.
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Bingo.
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
Why do you think DAL got rid of the ATR's? They said it made them far more money per seat than the CRJ did but because their traveling public complained about it and how it wasn't a jet...well they axed it.
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Actually, I think that icing and the public perception of the Avions d'Transport Regionale 72 might have had something to do with it too...boots insufficiently far aft on the chord makes an airplane unsafe for flight into known icing conditions.

(yes, I know FinnComm operates them in places like Helsinki and Turku, but I still don't like it.)
 
jtrain609 said:
Bingo.
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I debated if I should post this, but I can't help myself.

Honestly Jtrain, what am I going to tell my family if I go back to flying props? How will I be able to look at myself in the mirror again? I just spent all this money on the IPod, Backpack (Tram's looked nice so I got one), and I polished my dome. I would have frosted but I have no real hair. How will I pretend I'm still a mainline pilot if I'm getting into the Q or the Saab? I know it says Delta or Airways on the side but the jig is up with the passengers!

You think the passengers will respect me the same? I know its the same uniform but GOD, I just don't feel like a real pilot without those JEEETETTSSTSTS!

Can we start putting tags on our shirts that say Jet Pilot so people know we are better?

Ah, I actually feel better after being wildly and unnecessarily sarcastic.
 
jynxyjoe said:
The newest product with the Q brand will be a 19 person twin engine, they will use the PW150A engines on an airframe of 17,000-18,000 lbs. It's likely it will have no bathroom or FA or autopilot.
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Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes!

Oh, and Bombardier will farm out the development to beechcraft so that its built like a brick house, they will also certify it for single pilot ops.
 
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