Beech 18 vs. Lockheed Electra

ASpilot2be

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What made the Beech 18 so much more popular than the Electra? It looks like a very similar designs. Yet according to Wikipedia the Beech 18 sold more than 9000, and the Electra didnt even reach 1000.

I figure this is a thread Waco can enjoy.
 
I'm not exactly sure but my guess would be that it probably boiled down to some kind of manufacturing issue that made the 18's easier to produce and therefore cheaper (I think the Electra may have been more complex). Also - Lockheed had to build a lot of other planes during WW2 - Lightenings, Hudson/Harpoons. etc and that may have shifted the focus. I also think it might be that the Beech was more docile than the Electra but that's just a guess. The 18 was the biggest thing Beech was building, the Electra wasn't the biggest or most important financially - so it may have suffered from that as Lockheed focussed on more profitable niches.
 
I'm not exactly sure but my guess would be that it probably boiled down to some kind of manufacturing issue that made the 18's easier to produce and therefore cheaper (I think the Electra may have been more complex). Also - Lockheed had to build a lot of other planes during WW2 - Lightenings, Hudson/Harpoons. etc and that may have shifted the focus. I also think it might be that the Beech was more docile than the Electra but that's just a guess. The 18 was the biggest thing Beech was building, the Electra wasn't the biggest or most important financially - so it may have suffered from that as Lockheed focussed on more profitable niches.

At the time of the Pear Harbor attack, Lockheed was outselling Beech by a ratio of 12:1. Beech got the boost from Lockheed's concentration on larger aircraft and Beech took advantage of the contracts for the Electra using the Beech 18.

I would jump at a chance to fly both an Electra and a prewar C18. I think it would be an awesome experience and one heck of a write-up!
 
IIRC there was an engine mount problem in the early models. I bet that reputation was hard to shake, even after it was fixed.
 
I dunno, maybe it was because Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan could not get across the Pacific ocean in one? That was just a little issue that needs to be dealt with; the pilot aside. WTF do you think Earhart was flying? It does not make it the plane's fault, but does anyone here have an idea of the historical significance of the Lockheed model 10 Electra?

What's the point of this thread if no one can manage to mention Amelia and the Electra? Hello? Anyone awake out there?

I'm sorry, but after 36 years of flying, I cannot imagine folks talking about the Electra without mentioning Amelia! That just blows my mind! WOW!!!
 
I dunno, maybe it was because Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan could not get across the Pacific ocean in one? That was just a little issue that needs to be dealt with; the pilot aside. WTF do you think Earhart was flying? It does not make it the plane's fault, but does anyone here have an idea of the historical significance of the Lockheed model 10 Electra?

What's the point of this thread if no one can manage to mention Amelia and the Electra? Hello? Anyone awake out there?

I'm sorry, but after 36 years of flying, I cannot imagine folks talking about the Electra without mentioning Amelia! That just blows my mind! WOW!!!


Earhart disappeared in 1937 (same year the Twin Beech was introduced).

In 1941, Lockheed was still selling 12 Electras to every Twin Beech.


It's my opinion that the Electra was a good airplane in a bad situation. It came into the market place at a great time in 1934, reached fame with Earhart, and fell victim to increased fighter production with the P-38 line.

By the time the war was over, Lockheed had lost the market on "small" twin engine executive/regional transports to Beechcraft and began concentrating on much larger markets (namely the Connie).

So Amelia and the Electra... a footnote when compared to the forces that ultimately put the Beech 18 in the position for massed and continued production rather than the Electra.
 
Rode in this Beech last week near Hayward WI, a blast!

615f34b9-bbc4-3f27.jpg
 
I'm not exactly sure but my guess would be that it probably boiled down to some kind of manufacturing issue that made the 18's easier to produce and therefore cheaper (I think the Electra may have been more complex). Also - Lockheed had to build a lot of other planes during WW2 - Lightenings, Hudson/Harpoons. etc and that may have shifted the focus. I also think it might be that the Beech was more docile than the Electra but that's just a guess. The 18 was the biggest thing Beech was building, the Electra wasn't the biggest or most important financially - so it may have suffered from that as Lockheed focussed on more profitable niches.

That and the Beech 18 was built in large numbers as the AT-11 (and variants) used for multi-engine pilot training, bombardier training & navigator training during WW-2.
 
That and the Beech 18 was built in large numbers as the AT-11 (and variants) used for multi-engine pilot training, bombardier training & navigator training during WW-2.

Yes it was, but the Electra and Electra Junior would have been a great platform for those training aircraft as well as the Beech 18. I think had it not been for Lockheed's development of the P-38, you would see a ton of Electras today rather than Beech 18s.
 
Actually, I don't see a ton of BE-18's either. Your results may vary.

When the FAA hit the Beech 18 with a massive spar AD, operators began looking for other options because the cost of the spar strap was more than the value of the airplane.

Plus, the last Beech 18 was manufactured in 1970 and most are now retired from work airplanes and are in the hands of private individuals.
 
Not sure of the reason, but my last sim instructor flew as captain on the Electra for Eastern, and he said that it was the most complicated airplane he's ever flown, with tons of mechanical problems all the time.
 
Not sure of the reason, but my last sim instructor flew as captain on the Electra for Eastern, and he said that it was the most complicated airplane he's ever flown, with tons of mechanical problems all the time.

Two different Electras... same company.

Lockheed Model 10 Electra (of Earhart fame and one half of the subject of this thread)

Earhart-electra_10.jpg


And the Lockheed Model 188 Electra... The one Eastern would have flown.

Eastern_Air_Lines_L-188_Electra_N5512.jpg
 
Just as a point of interest, the Navy seems to be still flying Electra Junior around, so they must have finally figured out how to make it not break.

On the original subject: I know next to nothing about the 18, except that it looks suspiciously like the 99 on the inside. I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are pieces of the Wright Flyer in a 1900. I swear Beech engineers design airplanes with Legos. And heavens, isn't that Electra better to look at?
 
I enjoy reading these old threads. This one I really know about. I have flown both and I owned a C-40, military version of the model 12A. The two aircraft have little in common other than the engines R985-AN 14-B. The Lockheed is the better of the two aircraft. The performance of the Lockheed is so much better, it flies faster lands slower, If you start looking at the external features of the two airplanes they have less in common the longer you look at them. The Lockheed has a long slender fuselage. The windshield on the beech is huge in comparison and has larger side windows, the Lockheed's small windshield is less drag, the tail wheel is small and much farther aft, the Beech has a large retractable tail wheel placed much farther forward. The main landing gear differs too, the Lockheed has a much longer travel and has fenders to keep debris from damaging the wing, the original tires were Goodyear 30X13X6 tires ( 30 inches tall 13 inches wide with a 6 inch hub) the tires are smooth, no tread, with multiple disk brakes. Most of the Lockheed's have been converted to the same wheel and tires as the Beech because the inability to find these tires, In the mid 1970"s there was one place that would recap these tires for $1000 each. Moving on, the engine cowling on the Beech Is straight with cowl flaps. The Lockheed uses streamlined NACA cowlings that do not need cowl flaps. The engine nacells are farther out the wing to allow the use of much longer prop blades. The props used on the Lockheed are Hamilton Standard 2 D30 constant speed props, the Beech uses 22 D30 constant speed full feathering props. The tail is much wider to put the rudders straight behind the props. All of the flight controls on the Beech are fabric, the Lockheed are all aluminum. The flaps on the Beech are plain flaps, the Lockheed's are huge split flaps, also when the flaps are lowered the ailerons droop down. The wings on the Lockheed has a very long chord, because of this the manual on the weight and balance is very simple if it will fit in the cabin and does not exceed the gross weight it's good. Other differences are the Beech uses hydraulics for most of the systems, flaps, landing gear, etc. The only hydraulics on the Lockheed are the brakes every thing else is electric. Because of the flaps the aileron droop and the strength of the tail wheel the Lockheed was meant to be landed three point the Beech needs to be wheel landed. I used to practice landing on the front of the runway numbers and be stopped before reaching the far side of the numbers. In 1936 when the aircraft was built there were much fewer paved runways. The Lockheed was designed to take off and land on grass using less than 1000 feet at gross weight. I owned the Lockheed for six years. I sold it for two reasons first I could not afford to feed it with the price of fuel going up, second I got married and bought a house. I also sold my cub a PA-11 and bought a Downer (Bellanca) 14-19-2. I still miss flying the old beast thou, It was fun. It is in a museum now, there are pictures of it on line. google it up using the registration number N93R. It looks much nicer than when I owned it I only had the fuselage polished, It was all I could do working by myself.
 
I have no comment other than that the Beech 18 has always been one of my favorite airplanes. It's beautiful. I would love to fly one some day.

Oh, that and the small airport where I first learned to fly had a seat belt from a Beech 18, still attached to the metal fittings that were ripped out of the airplane when a freight dog hauling checks in one hit the back side of a small hill at that airport. Morbid and it always gave me chills, but kept me very serious about flying...
 
I enjoy reading these old threads. This one I really know about. I have flown both and I owned a C-40, military version of the model 12A. The two aircraft have little in common other than the engines R985-AN 14-B. The Lockheed is the better of the two aircraft. The performance of the Lockheed is so much better, it flies faster lands slower, If you start looking at the external features of the two airplanes they have less in common the longer you look at them. The Lockheed has a long slender fuselage. The windshield on the beech is huge in comparison and has larger side windows, the Lockheed's small windshield is less drag, the tail wheel is small and much farther aft, the Beech has a large retractable tail wheel placed much farther forward. The main landing gear differs too, the Lockheed has a much longer travel and has fenders to keep debris from damaging the wing, the original tires were Goodyear 30X13X6 tires ( 30 inches tall 13 inches wide with a 6 inch hub) the tires are smooth, no tread, with multiple disk brakes. Most of the Lockheed's have been converted to the same wheel and tires as the Beech because the inability to find these tires, In the mid 1970"s there was one place that would recap these tires for $1000 each. Moving on, the engine cowling on the Beech Is straight with cowl flaps. The Lockheed uses streamlined NACA cowlings that do not need cowl flaps. The engine nacells are farther out the wing to allow the use of much longer prop blades. The props used on the Lockheed are Hamilton Standard 2 D30 constant speed props, the Beech uses 22 D30 constant speed full feathering props. The tail is much wider to put the rudders straight behind the props. All of the flight controls on the Beech are fabric, the Lockheed are all aluminum. The flaps on the Beech are plain flaps, the Lockheed's are huge split flaps, also when the flaps are lowered the ailerons droop down. The wings on the Lockheed has a very long chord, because of this the manual on the weight and balance is very simple if it will fit in the cabin and does not exceed the gross weight it's good. Other differences are the Beech uses hydraulics for most of the systems, flaps, landing gear, etc. The only hydraulics on the Lockheed are the brakes every thing else is electric. Because of the flaps the aileron droop and the strength of the tail wheel the Lockheed was meant to be landed three point the Beech needs to be wheel landed. I used to practice landing on the front of the runway numbers and be stopped before reaching the far side of the numbers. In 1936 when the aircraft was built there were much fewer paved runways. The Lockheed was designed to take off and land on grass using less than 1000 feet at gross weight. I owned the Lockheed for six years. I sold it for two reasons first I could not afford to feed it with the price of fuel going up, second I got married and bought a house. I also sold my cub a PA-11 and bought a Downer (Bellanca) 14-19-2. I still miss flying the old beast thou, It was fun. It is in a museum now, there are pictures of it on line. google it up using the registration number N93R. It looks much nicer than when I owned it I only had the fuselage polished, It was all I could do working by myself.

Nice write up, but not all 18s are as you described. I've seen my share that don't have coal flaps and starting with the E model Super 18s, two bladed Hamilton Standard was updated to a shorter 3-bladed prop. Also at this time, they went it full aluminum on the flight controls as part of a gross weight increase. Furthermore, the gear, flaps, etc on the 18 are electric.


I would love to see a write up on your Bellanca.
 
Flew an Electra Jr for a few hours... Its a nice aircraft. Flew really well. Oddly enough it reminded me of a Skymaster with the way that it handled and flew. Not overly fast or comfortable. But the sound of those radials right outside the window is something I'll never forget.
 
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