rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
The endorsement is required if they want to get an "SIC type" but not to act as SIC in domestic operations.
Beating a dead horse - SIC type question
- Thread starter CFI A&P
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The endorsement is required if they want to get an "SIC type" but not to act as SIC in domestic operations.
g550driver
Well-Known Member
You are incorrect. For a domestic flight in the US in a part 91 airplane no SIC type is required, so no endorsement is required.
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dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
No one is arguing or stating that a SIC "type rating" is required for domestic flights. The OP wants to know how to go about training a SIC (so that he/she may legally log the time) in a Cessna 550.
I might be incorrect but I'm reading that an endorsement is required to be given under these circumstances. I guess both of us are correct: an endorsement is not required to be a SIC however, one is required to be given if training conducted by qualified ATP. Is THIS correct? What am I not understanding?
FAR 61.167 states (in part):
Sec. 61.167 — Privileges.
(a) A person who holds an airline transport pilot certificate is entitled to the same privileges as a person who holds a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating.
(b) An airline transport pilot may instruct—
(1) Other pilots in air transportation service in aircraft of the category, class, and type, as applicable, for which the airline transport pilot is rated and endorse the logbook or other training record of the person to whom training has been given;
(2) ..................
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rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
Right, but 61.55 doesn't require any endorsement to be given in the first place to act as SIC. The SIC just needs to review the required information, required landings, engine out, and CRM. The only reason he would need an endorsement is IF he wants to go and get his SIC type.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
That's where we are dealing with typical gub'ment crap. As a SIC, I don't NEED the endorsement nor is one required.
However, in THIS situation, as posted by the OP, the ATP (left seater) can conduct the training for the SIC but MUST endorse the logbook or training record of the "student" (no mention as to whether the student is seeking a type rating or not).
So....the SIC can live without the endorsement but the ATP can not! The student is operating under 61.55, the ATP under 61.167.
However, in THIS situation, as posted by the OP, the ATP (left seater) can conduct the training for the SIC but MUST endorse the logbook or training record of the "student" (no mention as to whether the student is seeking a type rating or not).
So....the SIC can live without the endorsement but the ATP can not! The student is operating under 61.55, the ATP under 61.167.
stearman72
Well-Known Member
Here is my question, Is there any way to receive a SIC type on your certificate to operate internationally with all of the FSDOs shutdown? I have received all of the training required by 61.55 and have been given the appropriate logbook endorsements.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
I read it to state that you "may" instruct; if you choose that option, you then need to follow the subparagraph (which states to endorse the logbook or record).
This having been stated, you might be able to successfully argue your point but why would you want or need to? Why not just complete the training and make the endorsement? For the student it opens up the opportunity to log the time and for the PIC it opens the door to legally use the SIC.
Good luck with this one. I can't think of any way to get the certificate until things open up....
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
I'm pretty sure that 121/135 APDs are still able to "bless" in IACRA and issue temporaries; whether or not permanent certificates are being issued and approved by the Registry is another matter.
I've been told differing accounts on whether or not Flight Standards is working today.
U_of_I_Tweak
Well-Known Member
What if the PIC isn't ATP rated? You can be a Private or Commercial rated pilot with a PIC type.
In any event, I think we're getting carried away. The potential SIC needs no endorsement. The PIC may not be "instructing" during the SIC's landings, so their need to log anything is nebulous at best.
Sent from my DROID RAZR now Free
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
It's apparent you didn't actually read the entire thread. Nuff said.................
