Basic questions about military aviation

[qazqazq]

I have questions regarding a career in military aviation. I'm trying to gather information on what it would take to land a seat in a fighter. Right
now I'm trying to come up with a general path of progression, and find out if there is anything that would DQ me before even getting started. I am 23
years old. My vision is worse than 20/20, but I do not wear glasses. I imagine correcting my vision to 20/20 or better would not be a problem. I had a
major surgery to reconstruct multiple breaks in my right arm and I have a good bit of metal, but I have recovered completely and I am not physically
limited in any way. I have attended some college, but do not have a degree. I also have no flight training of any kind at this point. Those are the only
things I can think of that could be red flags.

Assuming those issues aren't really issues, the big question I have is whether or not there is really any control over where you end up when dealing
with the military. I wouldn't want to commit myself to military service and jump through all of the hoops only to find out that I can't get where I want
to be due to factors beyond my control. Can a person with ability and the right plan in place control where they end up, or is there a big luck element
involved?

My next question is which branch of service offers the best opportunity for flying a fighter? Once I get more information on these questions I can talk
to a recruiter and discuss some of the specifics.

Thanks for any information provided!

 

[MikeD]

Search around this section of the forum. There are good info threads already in existance.

 

[Superfly7XAF]

I'm trying to gather information on what it would take to land a seat in a fighter.

Mistake one.

My vision is worse than 20/20, but I do not wear glasses. I imagine correcting my vision to 20/20 or better would not be a problem

Uncorrected limits are 20/70 for the AF and I'd be careful about correcting your vision, it is allowed, but you have to jump through a few more hoops.

I had a major surgery to reconstruct multiple breaks in my right arm and I have a good bit of metal

Not good, better hope for a wavier.

I have attended some college, but do not have a degree

Step one is get a degree, you can't fly for the AF without one. If you don't have the resources to finish your degree, maybe look into the Warrant Officer program in the Army.

I also have no flight training of any kind at this point

Not required but it helps and a lot of other applicants will have some flight time and ratings.

the big question I have is whether or not there is really any control over where you end up when dealing with the military. I wouldn't want to commit myself to military service and jump through all of the hoops only to find out that I can't get where I want to be due to factors beyond my control. Can a person with ability and the right plan in place control where they end up, or is there a big luck element involved?

Then the military is not for you. You can express your preference and work your ass off but other than that (I've said it before and I'll say it again) there are no guarantees. Most of it is luck and timing, do what you can with what you have and hope that the chips fall your way.

My next question is which branch of service offers the best opportunity for flying a fighter?

. . . oh brother

 

[qazqazq]

Thanks for the condescension, Superfly. Where would the internet be without it?

 

[Mikey_G]

Thanks for the condescension, Superfly. Where would the internet be without it?

He was dead on with his responses yet you are giving him crap? Way to bite the hand that feeds you. This is the point where you probably want to distance yourself as far away from the military as possible.

 

[Superfly7XAF]

Thanks for the condescension, Superfly. Where would the internet be without it?

Trust me I was using kid gloves. I'm honestly not trying to be an ass but I'm not going to sugarcoat anything for you either. If your not happy with my response go post that s*** on baseops and see what happens.

Best of luck to you.

 

[BCTAv8r]

If you want to fly a fighter, start doing research on the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve. That's the most guaranteed way (that isn't).

 

[mhcasey]

I posted tons of good info on this forum a few weeks ago. If you had read a single similar thread you'd know to browse baseops and wantscheck for more answers. Go to said sources and come back in ~2 weeks if you still have questions.

To help you in the mean time, understand that:

1) The military is not a college admissions office. We will not hold your hand and give you all the answers with a few cookies and a fresh cup of coffee.
2) I'd be lying if I said that I didn't want a fighter slot more than anything. That said, understand that nobody cares that you want a fighter and 99 times out of 100 if you strut around saying you want to be the next hero fighter pilot, people are going to tell you "officer first," and with good reason.
3) A general first rule as a new officer is to . I highly encourage you to use a similar mentality when proofreading your third post here.

 

[Low_Level_Hell]

He was just asking questions I'm sure you all had at one time. I know I wouldn't be in the military if I wasn't able to be an aviator.

For the OP; What you do and where you go in the military can only be controlled so much. There's no way you can tell what will be availible for aircraft or assignments before you even sign the dotted line.

 

[akmountaineer]

I have questions regarding a career in military aviation. I'm trying to gather information on what it would take to land a seat in a fighter. Right
now I'm trying to come up with a general path of progression, and find out if there is anything that would DQ me before even getting started. I am 23
years old. My vision is worse than 20/20, but I do not wear glasses. I imagine correcting my vision to 20/20 or better would not be a problem. I had a
major surgery to reconstruct multiple breaks in my right arm and I have a good bit of metal, but I have recovered completely and I am not physically
limited in any way. I have attended some college, but do not have a degree. I also have no flight training of any kind at this point. Those are the only
things I can think of that could be red flags.

Assuming those issues aren't really issues, the big question I have is whether or not there is really any control over where you end up when dealing
with the military. I wouldn't want to commit myself to military service and jump through all of the hoops only to find out that I can't get where I want
to be due to factors beyond my control. Can a person with ability and the right plan in place control where they end up, or is there a big luck element
involved?

My next question is which branch of service offers the best opportunity for flying a fighter? Once I get more information on these questions I can talk
to a recruiter and discuss some of the specifics.

Thanks for any information provided!

Go AF Reserve or Guard. It gives you the most control of any option. I had the same reservations you have in regard to so many unknowns with active duty, which is why I went Reserve. There were a couple of guys in my UPT class that knew they were headed for F-16s because they were guard.

 

[rpfeif]

I wouldn't want to commit myself to military service and jump through all of the hoops only to find out that I can't get where I want to be due to factors beyond my control.

Don't go Navy then. You'd probably hate being a SWO more than the rest of the SNA/SNFO that had to make that decision.

You might be a great candidate to be a military aviator, but you need to recheck you attitude and mindset before trying to take meaningful steps towards starting down the path of military aviation (I am basing this off of two internet posts so I may be way off). As a Student Naval Aviator I can only say the two things you absolutely need is a great attitude (humble and constantly open to learning/criticisim) and be a hard worker. Beyond that you don't worry about anything else except the next brief/flight.

 

[///AMG]

Like RP said, and maybe to emphasize his point even more, you need to have a really humble attitude as a student. You will be hammered in debriefs (and in the airplane) from day one......even more so when you get further along in the pipeline. In hindsight, primary was taught in huge baby steps, but at the time it was certainly challenging at times. If you get good grades there, AND (and this is a big AND) the timing is right to get what you want, you very well could get that "fighter" slot you want. That said I know lots of good students with good grades who got their #2 and #3 choices. I was one of the lucky ones who got my first choice (tailhook/jets), but it certainly does not end there. Intermediate jets were certainly challenging, and it was a big big learning curve going from the T-34C to the T-45C. Again, in hindsight, the kid gloves were still on even though it seemed challenging at the time. I'm in advanced strike now, dropping bombs out in southern CA, and I will say that this is absolutely the most demanding thing I have ever undertaken in my life. Getting an engineering degree in college was like eating a snack in terms of comparative life difficulty. The bar is set extremely high, and every single thing you did up until this point is considered to be 1) admin, and 2) required to be nearly perfect. That includes landing pattern work, formation flying (joins, division form, tactical manuevering, etc), comms, instrument flying, and just generally getting from point A to point B professionally.....and that is just getting to and from the target or MOA. My point is that you will be challenged at an unbelievably high level (at least from an outsider's perspective) and you will fail along the way. Going in with the attitude that "I am here to fly fighters or I quit" is going to get you nowhere but into the XO's office when you decide to DOR. Everyone fails at some point, it's just a matter of having the right attitude and getting up when you fall down and improving. I hope that helps, and I'm sure the fleet experienced aviators can chime in as well.

Oh yeah, there is nothing like taking a jet hurtling at the sand at 450 nautical miles per hour and putting a bomb right on the bullseye of the target like you meant to, and then capping it all off by coming back for a 350 kt break on the wing of your buddies at homefield. (such was my afternoon today ) So don't let what I say persuade you away from pursuing your goals. We were all where you are at some point, some of us not too long ago. Best of luck to you, and of course Fly Navy! (if you are still wondering which service to choose)

 

[bunk22]

Thanks for the condescension, Superfly. Where would the internet be without it?

Perhaps someone who actually wanted or had the true desire would first, begin with a search. He or she would find that your question(s) has been asked dozens of times. Jetcareers is a good website but mostly civilian and thus the small military contingent tends to tone it down. Ask this question without demonstrating some sort of initiative on your part on the military sites would mean you would get your e-nuts stomped. Want to be a military aviator? Grow some thick skin and show some initiative.

 

[BCTAv8r]

Like RP said, and maybe to emphasize his point even more, you need to have a really humble attitude as a student. You will be hammered in debriefs (and in the airplane) from day one......even more so when you get further along in the pipeline. In hindsight, primary was taught in huge baby steps, but at the time it was certainly challenging at times. If you get good grades there, AND (and this is a big AND) the timing is right to get what you want, you very well could get that "fighter" slot you want. That said I know lots of good students with good grades who got their #2 and #3 choices. I was one of the lucky ones who got my first choice (tailhook/jets), but it certainly does not end there. Intermediate jets were certainly challenging, and it was a big big learning curve going from the T-34C to the T-45C. Again, in hindsight, the kid gloves were still on even though it seemed challenging at the time. I'm in advanced strike now, dropping bombs out in southern CA, and I will say that this is absolutely the most demanding thing I have ever undertaken in my life. Getting an engineering degree in college was like eating a snack in terms of comparative life difficulty. The bar is set extremely high, and every single thing you did up until this point is considered to be 1) admin, and 2) required to be nearly perfect. That includes landing pattern work, formation flying (joins, division form, tactical manuevering, etc), comms, instrument flying, and just generally getting from point A to point B professionally.....and that is just getting to and from the target or MOA. My point is that you will be challenged at an unbelievably high level (at least from an outsider's perspective) and you will fail along the way. Going in with the attitude that "I am here to fly fighters or I quit" is going to get you nowhere but into the XO's office when you decide to DOR. Everyone fails at some point, it's just a matter of having the right attitude and getting up when you fall down and improving. I hope that helps, and I'm sure the fleet experienced aviators can chime in as well.

Oh yeah, there is nothing like taking a jet hurtling at the sand at 450 nautical miles per hour and putting a bomb right on the bullseye of the target like you meant to, and then capping it all off by coming back for a 350 kt break on the wing of your buddies at homefield. (such was my afternoon today ) So don't let what I say persuade you away from pursuing your goals. We were all where you are at some point, some of us not too long ago. Best of luck to you, and of course Fly Navy! (if you are still wondering which service to choose)

That was motivating. Thanks!:clap:

 

[MikeD]

Going in with the attitude that "I am here to fly fighters or I quit" is going to get you nowhere but into the XO's office when you decide to DOR.

"Before you get to sell what we teach you at U-nited Airlines, you have to give the Navy SIX years of your life, sweet pea....."

[yt]tA4SQRZsWCQ[/yt]

"I want your DOR!!!!"

"Sell it to the Air Force Mayo, sell it to the Air Force!"

[yt]6dRdGLTrjWs&feature=related[/yt]

 

[rpfeif]

That moive makes me laugh, one of the guys in my class was told by his officer recruiter to watch that movie to prepare for OCS.

I remember it being more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCGqCGALd5I

We had our five of our DORs within the first two hours of Wake up Wednesday. Our class got one kid to quit the first day right before dinner chow when we were candio's, that was a one of the highlights to my experience there.

 

[germb747]

What do you know, at this point, about being a fighter pilot? I ask because I wonder how you figure, as a guy with zero flying time, that you'd even be satisfied with that lifestyle?

In other words, what is it about being a military aviator (and more specifically a fighter pilot), that attracts you?

Just curious.

Just so you know, most people (who aren't air reserve componet) who go to pilot training don't even know until they're half-way through the program what track (fighter/bomber, tanker/transport, helo, etc) they're selected for--It's competitive based on your performance and other factors. Frankly, even if you are one of the lucky few who make it all the way through the selection process, your chances are still slim that you'll actually get awarded a fighter. Last time I checked, they were only handing out maybe a couple of those per class; now it's probably even more difficult due to the UAV program.

I'm not saying don't go for it if you want it, but if you are one of those guys who have the attitude of "fighter or nothing", you're setting yourself up for disappointment. We had one of those guys (academy types) in my UPT class; didn't get selected for T-38s, and then basically didn't give a damn about anything throughout T-1s and very nearly washed out of the program altogether (and they're not afraid to do it when you only have a month left to go before you get your wings). Additionally, if you're 23 and aren't a graduating senior this year, consider yourself behind the curve. You have time, but your peers who are serious about this are ahead of you. Also, if you can, go out to the local airport and take some flying lessons. You may discover you love it; you may discover it's not for you. But, you don't know until you try it.

There's alot more to being in the military than flying planes, even if you are a pilot. As an officer, last week I worked on many different projects around the squadron--unfortunately none of them had anything to do with flying. And like it or not, you will be asked to take on many nonflying roles; I knew that going in and it didn't stop me--just another thing to keep in mind.

 

[ian]

What do you know, at this point, about being a fighter pilot? I ask because I wonder how you figure, as a guy with zero flying time, that you'd even be satisfied with that lifestyle?

In other words, what is it about being a military aviator (and more specifically a fighter pilot), that attracts you?

Just curious.

Just so you know, most people (who aren't air reserve componet) who go to pilot training don't even know until they're half-way through the program what track (fighter/bomber, tanker/transport, helo, etc) they're selected for--It's competitive based on your performance and other factors. Frankly, even if you are one of the lucky few who make it all the way through the selection process, your chances are still slim that you'll actually get awarded a fighter. Last time I checked, they were only handing out maybe a couple of those per class; now it's probably even more difficult due to the UAV program.

I'm not saying don't go for it if you want it, but if you are one of those guys who have the attitude of "fighter or nothing", you're setting yourself up for disappointment. We had one of those guys (academy types) in my UPT class; didn't get selected for T-38s, and then basically didn't give a damn about anything throughout T-1s and very nearly washed out of the program altogether (and they're not afraid to do it when you only have a month left to go before you get your wings). Additionally, if you're 23 and aren't a graduating senior this year, consider yourself behind the curve. You have time, but your peers who are serious about this are ahead of you. Also, if you can, go out to the local airport and take some flying lessons. You may discover you love it; you may discover it's not for you. But, you don't know until you try it.

There's alot more to being in the military than flying planes, even if you are a pilot. As an officer, last week I worked on many different projects around the squadron--unfortunately none of them had anything to do with flying. And like it or not, you will be asked to take on many nonflying roles; I knew that going in and it didn't stop me--just another thing to keep in mind.

pretty much what he said....

i was at the top of my t-6 class and my first choice was to go to the t-1

lately they have been dropping 1 fighter per t-38 class and i don't see that changing anytime soon...unfortunately the fighter pilot is a dying breed

 

[sog]

I'm not a Navy guy, but this seemed like a good place to drop in the fact that, to my knowledge, the Navy operates almost zero UAV's. Any aircraft that is carrier-based, well, that is gonna be one hell of a ride.

I don't imagine that the flight operations of an Air Force T-1 are exactly the same as flying a learjet in the civilian world, but I don't think any civilian flying job is at all analogous to landing an aircraft on a carrier in rough seas.

Of course it's not this simple, but personally, if I had to choose between flying a T-1 or KC-135 for the air force vs. flying any carrier-based aircraft, then I'd take navy any day.

 

[Hacker15e]

I'm not a Navy guy, but this seemed like a good place to drop in the fact that, to my knowledge, the Navy operates almost zero UAV's.

Go check the forums at AirWarriors. I think you'll find a different story.