Bad news guys... United

Timbuff10

Well-Known Member
I was wondering how long UA can stay afloat if it keeps this up as it has for the last year plus. According to Reuters here it says UA has a little over $2 billion left minus some half billion. If they continue to lose $250 million a month my calculations say they are done by mid summer.
As much as I like to see Frontier kick their butt here in Denver, if they go under, the pool of unemployed pilots will skyrocket thus the road to the cockpit for many of us here just got longer. Not to mention the thousands of others that will be out of work.

Hmmm this has me thinking about something else though, would Bush let one of the largest airlines go out of business right before an election?


Reuters
UAL Has $191 Million Jan. Operating Loss
Thursday February 26, 1:57 pm ET


CHICAGO (Reuters) - United Airlines parent UAL Corp. (OTC BB:UALAQ.OB - News) on Thursday reported an operating loss of $191 million for the month of January.

Elk Grove, Illinois-based United, the world's second-biggest airline, filed the largest bankruptcy in aviation history in December 2002, and hopes to emerge from court protection around the middle of this year.

UAL said its net loss for January, including $26 million in reorganization expenses, was $252 million. It ended the quarter with $2.2 billion in cash, of which $650 million was restricted for existing obligations.

The cash balance was down $131 million from December, the carrier said, adding that it met special bankruptcy financing requirements for the 12th consecutive month.

The change in the cash balance included a retroactive, $63 million quarterly wage payment to the International Association of Machinists. The airline reports the monthly statistics as a result of its Chapter 11 bankruptcy case.

"Our financial results show progress compared to January a year ago, and United continued to outpace our competitors in passenger unit revenue improvement, despite the seasonally weak demand across the industry, which we expect to continue in February as well," said Chief Financial Officer Jake Brace in a statement.

Mainline unit revenue, which represents the amount of revenue taken in per available seat mile, rose 8 percent year-over-year, United said, above the industry average.

A similar cost measure excluding special charges and fuel improved 14 percent, the company said.

OUCH!
 

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
If United went under think about what would happen to the city of Denver and the local economy.

Think of what would happen at DIA.

Frontier can't keep DIA afloat alone. And without United you can expect Frontier to start cutting jobs.

But more importantly like you said think of all those out of work pilots and how it is gonna be all that much harder to get in the cockpit of an airliner if either United or US AIRWAYS goes outa business.

Wow employees of Frontier better hope that United stays afloat.

Matthew
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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If United went under think about what would happen to the city of Denver and the local economy.



[/ QUOTE ]

How about the city of Chicago?
 

Timbuff10

Well-Known Member
Well, realistically, I think CO would increase greatly within a week of UA parking its planes and would pick up a ton of slack. AA, NW, DL, and others would be in to pick up some routes too. These other airlines, especially CO have had plans in the works for over a year on what to do the day after UA closes its doors. In the end it might be Cleveland that gets screwed the most?

I really cant see how UA going down would hurt F9 though other than all our planes would be weight restricted and the seats might get worn out a bit faster. Now after some time, competition from the new major DEN airline could hurt depending on what they try and do. Frontier isnt the kind of company that is going to change their business plan if that happens, we just slowly keep growing and doing our thing.

Either way though it would be a crappy situation all the way around. I just hope UA does something to change its mainline and stop focusing on creating more problems for themselves (ted). Spring break and summer is coming though so that may save them if they can plug the holes in the hull till then.
 

Mike Lewis

Shadow Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If United went under think about what would happen to the city of Denver and the local economy.



[/ QUOTE ]

How about the city of Chicago?

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Probably a lot like St. Louis after TWA...
 

jrm1493

New Member
Other airlines will pick up the slack. This happens in every industry, and quite frankly, people still need to fly, this isnt like Enron going out of business (what did they even do, exactly?). United delivers a service that people need. Teleconferences suck compared to actually meeting someone face to face.

I think we've seen the impact of the TSA, and now people are expecting flying to suck, so they will start coming back (becuase taking a train or bus even a short hop from MCO-ATL would take 9 hours). This country is too large for other forms of transportation to make a long-term impact. The airline industry WILL recover, it just lags the rest of the economy, because you have to wait for buisnesses to get fat and happy and start sending their people on unnecessary trips. If the recovery continues this will happen, corporate management is way too stupid to keep running lean forever like they are now.
 

JDMcFly

New Member
Why is anyone surprised? It isn't like United has done anything to save them selves, except investing in a fairly closr to automatic failure start up.. Unless I'm wrong
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
I think the larger question for us as pilots is - what's going to happen to the hiring market if UA goes Tango Uniform?

Things are just starting to pick up for the "street pilot". That will come to an ABRUBPT end when/if UA's highly experienced pilots hit the street.

Food for thought.
 

mpenguin1

Well-Known Member
If United were to go under, you would see about 10 - 12 startup's, the other major carriers such as American & Delta would pull aircraft from the desert & increase service. Frontier & Jetblue will beg Airbus for a speedier delivery schedule & increase service.

The aviation industry lost other major airlines before, maybe not of the size of a United, but the aviation industry still survived.

Now saying that, I am sure that United will be just fine, yes on paper it looks pretty bad for United, but I am sure things will work out.
 

SUSPilot

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If United went under think about what would happen to the city of Denver and the local economy.



[/ QUOTE ]

How about the city of Chicago?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably a lot like St. Louis after TWA...

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. You're living in a dream world if you think those flights will be picked up. Now in St. Louis there are about 40 mainline American flights and around 200 American Connection Flights, where we used to have over 500 mainline TWA flights a day. Just because you have the space at an airport doesn't mean the airlines are going to come fight over filling it.
 

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
Didn't Delta Airlines increase flights to STL in the wake of Americans mass exodus from STL?

I thought that I had heard read that awhile back.


Matthew
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If United went under think about what would happen to the city of Denver and the local economy.



[/ QUOTE ]

How about the city of Chicago?

[/ QUOTE ]

ATA, SWA, AA...
 

Lima_Charlie

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
If United went under think about what would happen to the city of Denver and the local economy.

Think of what would happen at DIA.

Frontier can't keep DIA afloat alone. And without United you can expect Frontier to start cutting jobs.

But more importantly like you said think of all those out of work pilots and how it is gonna be all that much harder to get in the cockpit of an airliner if either United or US AIRWAYS goes outa business.

Wow employees of Frontier better hope that United stays afloat.

Matthew

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure that many of the LCC's would be scraping for those gates. United has had a stranglehold on DIA FOREVER!!!!
 

JDMcFly

New Member
Screw Chicago anyway.. I still remember Meigs.


Edit: By the way, I was reading the start of this thread instead of the last few posts
.. Gotta start reading the whole thread first!
 

davetheflyer

New Member
Not only UAL, but also USAir. IMHO both of them are living on borrowed time.

I'm no expert, but if they go Tango Uniform then I think that we can expect the surviving carriers to carve up their routes and assets like a bunch of hungry vultures. Chicago is a huge market and I'm sure that there will not be any shortage of seats there.

As to the unemployed pilots, I'm not sure how much the job market would be affected. There would be a lot of unemployed pilots, but how many of them would want to start over as a regional FO making $19,000 plus tips($0)?

I feel for the employees of both companies, but I don't have much hope for them.
 

tonyw

Well-Known Member
I see US Airways problems as more severe than United's. If United can hang on until business travel picks back up, they will be okay. That's where they make their money, and that's where their huge route network pays off.

I am not so confident about US Airways ability to hang on.

I think that US Airways should start an operation like Song or Ted and name it Bill. Then we'd have Bill and Ted's Excellent Bankrupt Airline Adventure.

What do you think?
 
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