Back Problems... Military Flight Physical Question...

F

Flush!

Well-Known Member
Mods: Please move, if necessary. I'm not sure this is the correct forum. If not, I understand... ;)


The saying goes: "There is no such thing as a stupid question". However, I'm going to test the boundaries of that saying this afternoon. :D

I was wondering if there is any way to pass an Army flight physical with degenerated/herniated spinal discs. I have a few in my lower back that are degenerated and two that are herniated by 1mm. I want to fly for the military but I'm pretty sure that I'm hosed...

I'm met military pilots with similar conditions but they were winged, pilots prior to their injury...

Any help is greatly appreciated... :beer:

Like I said, the obvious answer is a resounding "NO!!!" but I just thought I'd ask the question, in case there was a way...
 
Flush! said:
Mods: Please move, if necessary. I'm not sure this is the correct forum. If not, I understand... ;)


The saying goes: "There is no such thing as a stupid question". However, I'm going to test the boundaries of that saying this afternoon. :D

I was wondering if there is any way to pass an Army flight physical with degenerated/herniated spinal discs. I have a few in my lower back that are degenerated and two that are herniated by 1mm. I want to fly for the military but I'm pretty sure that I'm hosed...

I'm met military pilots with similar conditions but they were winged, pilots prior to their injury...

Any help is greatly appreciated... :beer:

Like I said, the obvious answer is a resounding "NO!!!" but I just thought I'd ask the question, in case there was a way...
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Talk to the US Army Recruiting Command (USAREC) and get ahold of someone in their Warrant Officer Recruiting division. DO NOT I repeat DO NOT talk to enlisted recruiters. They'll try to enlist you to get their quota.

Talk to a Warrant recruiter and see if you can get your hands on the medical standards. That's your first step.

Note: Some stabilized spinal conditions can be waivered, but it depends on the condition. Seen this firsthand.

Good luck! (Oh- and real aviators fly Blackhawks. Just sayin'.)
 
Flush! said:
Mods: Please move, if necessary. I'm not sure this is the correct forum. If not, I understand... ;)


The saying goes: "There is no such thing as a stupid question". However, I'm going to test the boundaries of that saying this afternoon. :D

I was wondering if there is any way to pass an Army flight physical with degenerated/herniated spinal discs. I have a few in my lower back that are degenerated and two that are herniated by 1mm. I want to fly for the military but I'm pretty sure that I'm hosed...

I'm met military pilots with similar conditions but they were winged, pilots prior to their injury...

Any help is greatly appreciated... :beer:

Like I said, the obvious answer is a resounding "NO!!!" but I just thought I'd ask the question, in case there was a way...
Click to expand...

This is a great question. I have the degenerated back condition you speak of. I served in the Army waaaay back in 2002 and was eventually separated from the Army due to my back condition.

My condition was EPTS ( existing prior to service ). I made the fatal mistake of NOT disclosing this before I joined and it came back to bite me in the you know what.

My advice...ask questions and be honest. Harsh reality is you may not get in, or you may need waivers. Either way good luck!

P.S. if you do get in- thank you for serving!
 
Flush! said:
Mods: Please move, if necessary. I'm not sure this is the correct forum. If not, I understand... ;)


The saying goes: "There is no such thing as a stupid question". However, I'm going to test the boundaries of that saying this afternoon. :D

I was wondering if there is any way to pass an Army flight physical with degenerated/herniated spinal discs. I have a few in my lower back that are degenerated and two that are herniated by 1mm. I want to fly for the military but I'm pretty sure that I'm hosed...

I'm met military pilots with similar conditions but they were winged, pilots prior to their injury...

Any help is greatly appreciated... :beer:

Like I said, the obvious answer is a resounding "NO!!!" but I just thought I'd ask the question, in case there was a way...
Click to expand...

I started my career with the Air Force in ROTC. I earned a pilot slot, but lost it medically about 1 month before I was set to go to UPT because of an L5-S1 herniated disc. Tried multiple times to get waivers, but no go. I served my time and got out in 2008.

In 2009 I started the process to go through the WOFT program in the Army. I was able to get an exception to policy letter from the SG of the Army for my disc problem. However, that letter happened to come through before I went to MEPS and even with that letter, the docs at MEPS DQ'd me for my back. I could have fought for two more waivers if I wanted to, but I choose not to and just moved on.,

So in a nutshell, it is possible in the Army to get a waiver for back issues. Just be ready for a fight at MEPS.

Also, I had the benefit of knowing an Army flight doc who gave me an examination then wrote the exception to policy letter for me and recomended that I recieve the exception.
 
Flight81 said:
I started my career with the Air Force in ROTC. I earned a pilot slot, but lost it medically about 1 month before I was set to go to UPT because of an L5-S1 herniated disc. Tried multiple times to get waivers, but no go. I served my time and got out in 2008.

In 2009 I started the process to go through the WOFT program in the Army. I was able to get an exception to policy letter from the SG of the Army for my disc problem. However, that letter happened to come through before I went to MEPS and even with that letter, the docs at MEPS DQ'd me for my back. I could have fought for two more waivers if I wanted to, but I choose not to and just moved on.,

So in a nutshell, it is possible in the Army to get a waiver for back issues. Just be ready for a fight at MEPS.

Also, I had the benefit of knowing an Army flight doc who gave me an examination then wrote the exception to policy letter for me and recomended that I recieve the exception.
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I guess you and I are "birds of a feather".

My story is similar to yours, only my injury surfaced during Air Force UPT, as opposed to before. My screen name is my call sign from UPT... (don't ask :o )

I tried to keep quiet about it because... Well, you know... (the flight doc is your enemy...no offense)

They put me on flexeril and "Vitamin M" for my back, neither of which did any good. The flexeril DNIFed me, so it was either take the drugs, or suck it up and fly...

I chose the latter and ended up trying to fly a Tweet with no sleep, which isn't easy.

Meh... I soloed twice and got dunked but that's about as far as I got. The VA gave me a 50% rating but I'd rather have a good back than the money. Honestly, I'd give anything to be a military pilot again. If there's any chance, I'd take it in a heartbeat. I don't care if it's a POS UH-60 that's missing a few blades; I'LL TAKE IT!!! :)

Thanks for your advice, guys. I'll run them to ground and see what comes of it. I know there's a waiver for everything, so I'll test that theory.

I'll keep y'all posted too...
 
This is just anecdotal in nature and not really an answer to your question BUT, when I was in flight school, I knew a guard MH-47 pilot who was also a civilian-contractor sim IP for us. She had been injured in a mishap in Afghanistan, and had suffered herniated discs from the accident. I don't remember all the details of her story, but it sounded like she was on her way to getting back on flight status. I know the whole winged vs unwinged thing might come into play, but I guess it could be possible at least. Agree with the others though, you need to talk to someone in the Army aviation medical community who can give you a straight informed answer.
 
///AMG said:
This is just anecdotal in nature and not really an answer to your question BUT, when I was in flight school, I knew a guard MH-47 pilot who was also a civilian-contractor sim IP for us. She had been injured in a mishap in Afghanistan, and had suffered herniated discs from the accident. I don't remember all the details of her story, but it sounded like she was on her way to getting back on flight status. I know the whole winged vs unwinged thing might come into play, but I guess it could be possible at least. Agree with the others though, you need to talk to someone in the Army aviation medical community who can give you a straight informed answer.
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Yeah! I know a few people that have similar conditions to mine who are flying combat missions as we speak. All of them were already winged, though....

I dunno... :dunno:

It's encouraging but could be a different set of circumstances....
 
I've been flying for the Army 9 years. I would say at least half the warrants that I know that have been in 10+ years have some sort of back issue. Makes sense that would be case with repeated deployments flying for hours wearing body armor and helmets all in a vibrating uncomfortable seat. Not to mention all the stuff that puts a toll on your back in the army. As a warrant officer you will be right there with the rest of the grunts loading/unloading shipping containers or trucks.

Point being if you come in with back problems, the Army will only make them worse.
 
I was on flight status for the army for 4 years and while I never brought my back problems to the flight surgeon I will say that if you do, he will simply ask you if it is going to affect your flying or if you need any medication because of it. If you say No to both of these, chances are you'll be ok. I can name a few CW5's that look like they should be walking with canes because their cervical spine is so warped, yet they are still SP's. RHIP's though.

If you live near Fort Rucker or know someone near there (or any aviation post), ask someone to ask a flight surgeon over there because I'm almost 100% positive you are one of a hundred per year that have this question lingering in the back of their mind.
 
I suppose it's common sense but if you're already in, it's much easier to get a waiver for an issue. I have a history since 02 with my L4/L5 and L5/S1 disks. Blew them out in 02...most painful injury I've ever had. I've broken bones, but cut open but this hurt. I'm still good to go but if it happened prior to coming in, my guess is I would have been a no go. I volunteered for a GSA with the Army last year and they NPQ'ed be from going. I was cleared to fly ejection seat aircraft but a no go for pretending to be a soldier. Not exactly apples to apples but my two cents anyway.
 
matthew said:
If you live near Fort Rucker or know someone near there (or any aviation post), ask someone to ask a flight surgeon over there because I'm almost 100% positive you are one of a hundred per year that have this question lingering in the back of their mind.
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It's only about 2,000 miles away... :D (I'm in California)

The closest things to me are Los Alamitos and Ft. Irwin. I know Los-Al doesn't have a flight doc but Ft. Irwin might....
 
Low_Level_Hell said:
I've been flying for the Army 9 years. I would say at least half the warrants that I know that have been in 10+ years have some sort of back issue. Makes sense that would be case with repeated deployments flying for hours wearing body armor and helmets all in a vibrating uncomfortable seat. Not to mention all the stuff that puts a toll on your back in the army. As a warrant officer you will be right there with the rest of the grunts loading/unloading shipping containers or trucks.

Point being if you come in with back problems, the Army will only make them worse.
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:yeahthat:

I don't know of any Army RW pilots who do not have back problems. I probably could have gotten a disability for my back and or shoulder, but in my view disability should be reserved for those who have disabilities that truely interfere with their ability to work.
 
Flush! said:
It's only about 2,000 miles away... :D (I'm in California)

The closest things to me are Los Alamitos and Ft. Irwin. I know Los-Al doesn't have a flight doc but Ft. Irwin might....
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Irwins got a battallion of 60's and some 47's I believe so I'm sure they have a few docs over there.
 
Irwin's gotta have a flight doc on staff somewhere. Try calling either the Flight Detachment at Barstow-Daggett or the Fort Irwin MEDEVAC on post. There are enough personnel on flight status between those two units that you should be able to get a good lead on a flight doc.

One more thing: OP, please do you due diligence on Army Aviation. There's more to it than meets the eye and you may not be prepared for what you discover.
 
I didn't read all the responses to the OP, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but . . .

Is that something that would show up in your medical history? Is it something that would need to be disclosed in the first place?

It's late and I'm on JC while wearing a tuxedo, so that may or may not make sense, but . . .
 
Flush! said:
I tried to keep quiet about it because... Well, you know... (the flight doc is your enemy...no offense)
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I think it's more accurate to say that the flight doc is the friend of all the people that aviator has to fly with and for. I don't imagine that I would want to be counting on a guy who is either a) in so much pain that he cant' focus on the task, or b) is so drugged up on pain killers that he can't focus on the task

That said, why would you enter a profession already in the hole? First problem you have, you'd be grounded. Sounds to me like you're just not meant to fly in the military. Find another path.
 
O&M said:
I think it's more accurate to say that the flight doc is the friend of all the people that aviator has to fly with and for. I don't imagine that I would want to be counting on a guy who is either a) in so much pain that he cant' focus on the task, or b) is so drugged up on pain killers that he can't focus on the task

That said, why would you enter a profession already in the hole? First problem you have, you'd be grounded. Sounds to me like you're just not meant to fly in the military. Find another path.
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Whoa man, easy with the generalities and judgements. I know quite a few people with wings on their chests who had to battle it out with the aviation medicine community before they were allowed to keep flying. I don't disagree about honesty being the best policy, and this case sounds like a situation that warrants an official "opinion", but I've also seen folks who were completely healthy and physically competent get sidelined for unreasonable amounts of time just because they ran their suck to the wrong person.
 
IMO, never tell the flight doc more than he or she needs to know. With that said, some things have to be told. The last time I herniated a disk, I was in lots of pain and certainly could not fly that day. I had to fess up and was sent to the head Navy orthopedic surgeon in Pensacola. He had to clear me to fly, or should I say to keep flying...which he did. Again, it's easier to get cleared to keep flying than to get into the program. I certainly know my limits though and would not fly if put me or another crew member in danger. My back has never hurt while flying. I'll soon see if I can continue that trend in the T-45A/C.
 
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