Back in the game

[jrh]

And man, does it feel good.

Gave a student pilot his first solo endorsement this morning...in a brand new, fully loaded Cirrus SR22. Never thought I'd be putting a $700,000 airplane on the line with a solo endorsement, but it worked out well.

When I looked back at my records, he was the first solo sign off I'd given in nearly three years.

As a result of a busy instructor leaving our company and no replacement readily available, I'm also stepping back in to my CFI shoes for a couple months until a new instructor comes in. I'll be picking up two customers working on their private pilot training in a Cessna Skycatcher and another couple that are at the end of their commercial and CFI training. I'm especially stoked to get some time in the Skycatcher...such a fun little plane.

I know a lot of instructors are anxious to move on to bigger and better jobs...CFIing can be a stressful, low paying gig. It's one of the reasons I no longer plan to make a full time living from teaching. But man, all I can say is try to appreciate how awesome it is when you can. I've been doing other things for almost two years now and my bank account/QOL has improved, but teaching is by far the most satisfying flying I've ever done. I'm anxious to go back to basics.

Any tips or tricks for teaching in a Skycatcher? I only have about 20 minutes of time in them!

 

[Ajax]

Skycatcher, not a fan. Land it flatish or your liable to strike the tail. When I was standardizing our other instructor in it we kinda toyed around with it a bit, found out it lands easier if you come in a little hot and nurse it in the flare. But then again we were kind of bored. Dropping the last notch of flaps only drops stall speed by 1 kt, and the bar interferes with the throttle, so we RARELY used it. Make sure those doors are shut, check it 2 or three times, if it pops open you'll have to land it with the door up, if it's still attached.

Disclaimer: I don't have too much time in the skyscratcher, we had one for a few months and no one was flying it so we sent it back. I'm sure someone here will have much better insight on it than I do.

On another note, I had to give my first 61.49 endorsement the other day. That sucked, failed on the flight portion minutes in, opted to continue and flew the rest of it satisfactorily...so he went up and .3hrs later, he got his PPL. It's always fun watching someone get their new certificate or rating, but first solos are great.

 

[jrh]

Dropping the last notch of flaps only drops stall speed by 1 kt, and the bar interferes with the throttle, so we RARELY used it.

The flap handle interferes with the throttle?

Make sure those doors are shut, check it 2 or three times, if it pops open you'll have to land it with the door up, if it's still attached.

Did your 162 have the secondary door latch installed? The plane at our school has a secondary latch installed, I believe to prevent the exact problem you're talking about.

Disclaimer: I don't have too much time in the skyscratcher, we had one for a few months and no one was flying it so we sent it back.

Oh, no kidding? I haven't paid attention to the numbers on ours, but I know it flies quite a bit. Plus operating costs are super cheap...I saw the receipt for a 100-hour inspection and it was only $800 for everything. That's about a third of our 2002 Skyhawk, I think.

 

[Ajax]

It can, the flap lever comes kind of close to the throttle, so it could interfere a tad with your grip on the throttle.

To my knowledge we didn't have a second latch

For some reason our students just didn't like it, however we don't have the kind of students that want cheap time.

 

[jrh]

Fair enough. I don't think our customers fly it strictly because it's cheaper. I think it's just a simple, fun little airplane. I really like the combination of glass cockpit avionics mixed with super simple systems and airframe. Of course I haven't spent much time in other LSAs to compare. Maybe once I get more time in it I'll think differently.

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

[quote="jrh, post: 2066633, member: 2962"
Any tips or tricks for teaching in a Skycatcher? I only have about 20 minutes of time in them![/quote]

#1 It's not a 150, a student CAN break it.

#2 When you slip with full flaps it runs out of rudder... But only in one direction. If it's right or left I can't remember. You'll have to go see for yourself.

#3 It's pretty easy to get it out of the forward CG.

#4 The G300 is pretty neat. Turn it off.



I can't wait till I have more time to teach again. I really miss it.


Edit: DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR IN FLIGHT!!!!

 

[Ajax]

Electric trim only rubs me the wrong way

 

[jrh]

#2 When you slip with full flaps it runs out of rudder... But only in one direction. If it's right or left I can't remember. You'll have to go see for yourself.

Interesting. I haven't heard this one. You mean the rudder is more effective in one direction than the other with full flaps extended? Any idea what causes this?

#3 It's pretty easy to get it out of the forward CG.

Ummm...how? I haven't done any W&B calculations on it, but...nothing moves. The seats are fixed in place. I just can't picture how loading it out the front end is possible.

#4 The G300 is pretty neat. Turn it off.

No doubt, I will.

 

[jrh]

Electric trim only rubs me the wrong way

Better not fly a Cirrus or Cessna Corvalis then!

But I hear ya, I am a little nervous about electric only trim on those higher performance planes. The Skycatcher has light enough control forces, I'm sure it would be easy to overpower runaway trim. Not so much in an SR22.

 

[Ajax]

Better not fly a Cirrus or Cessna Corvalis then!

But I hear ya, I am a little nervous about electric only trim on those higher performance planes. The Skycatcher has light enough control forces, I'm sure it would be easy to overpower runaway trim. Not so much in an SR22.

Let me rephrase that, electric trim in a "cheap" airplane rubs me the wrong way

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

Interesting. I haven't heard this one. You mean the rudder is more effective in one direction than the other with full flaps extended? Any idea what causes this?

I'm sorry, the rudder would over power the ailerons. I think it was a combination of the vertical stab off-set and how the differential ailerons work. All I remember is with full flaps, power off and stalled in a slip, it would start to roll into the applied rudder, in one direction only. Come to think of it, it might have not even been with flaps. It's nothing dramatic, just interesting.

Ummm...how? I haven't done any W&B calculations on it, but...nothing moves. The seats are fixed in place. I just can't picture how loading it out the front end is possible.

I weigh about 215. With 1/2 tanks, I was at gross and at the forward limit with someone over 180...

 

[Autothrust Blue]

TwoTwoLeft and Ajax BU speaketh the truth about the Dirtpounder. Very easy to be over MTOW and out on the forward limit unless you're built like a pine tree.

Fun to fly? Sure. Climbs like an elevator. But other than that it's an unimpressive, noisy and downright uncomfortable airplane, with indifferent construction and not as much utility as the 152.

Oh, mind your head and your eyes near the pitot. <- otherwise you'll look like that.

 

[Ajax]

I don't remember the W&B #s, I have long ditched the spreadsheet I had for it, but with me at 170 I didn't have much room for fuel with a 200lbs student

 

[jrh]

TwoTwoLeft and Ajax BU speaketh the truth about the Dirtpounder. Very easy to be over MTOW and out on the forward limit unless you're built like a pine tree.

Just to clarify, is it possible to be under MGTOW, yet forward of the CG limit?

I guess what I'm saying is, being *on* the limit doesn't concern me at all. I'm on or near the limits in lots of airplanes. Being *over* the limit is what concerns me. I'm a little skeptical that there is a loading configuration in the Skycatcher that will put it outside of the CG range without exceeding MGTOW.

And FWIW, two big guys in the front seats of an SR22, with nothing else loaded aside from fuel, will put it outside the forward CG limit. A couple big guys with lots of baggage will do the same in a Cessna 402. So I don't think the possibility of going out the front end of the envelope necessarily makes an airplane a bad design.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Just to clarify, is it possible to be under MGTOW, yet forward of the CG limit?

I guess what I'm saying is, being *on* the limit doesn't concern me at all. I'm on or near the limits in lots of airplanes. Being *over* the limit is what concerns me. I'm a little skeptical that there is a loading configuration in the Skycatcher that will put it outside of the CG range without exceeding MGTOW.

And FWIW, two big guys in the front seats of an SR22, with nothing else loaded aside from fuel, will put it outside the forward CG limit. A couple big guys with lots of baggage will do the same in a Cessna 402. So I don't think the possibility of going out the front end of the envelope necessarily makes an airplane a bad design.

I'll simply refer you to here:

I don't remember the W&B #s, I have long ditched the spreadsheet I had for it, but with me at 170 I didn't have much room for fuel with a 200lbs student

I weigh 180 (ha, okay, fine, 190); my buddy who wanted to check out the airplane weighs around 235. We'd be out of MTOW with any large amount of fuel aboard. I have long since flushed the numbers (ask me limits for 30 and 0 for cargo on the current whip and I can tell you right away), but I seem to recall this being one of the largest operational sticking points at the local school.

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

Just to clarify, is it possible to be under MGTOW, yet forward of the CG limit?

Two big dudes after an hour flight? Not so much a problem for an experienced pilot. My main concern is with students learning to land... The hard way...

Refer back to #1 in my original post!

 

[jrh]

I weigh 180 (ha, okay, fine, 190); my buddy who wanted to check out the airplane weighs around 235. We'd be out of MTOW with any large amount of fuel aboard. I have long since flushed the numbers (ask me limits for 30 and 0 for cargo on the current whip and I can tell you right away), but I seem to recall this being one of the largest operational sticking points at the local school.

Sure, I understand. It's a limited airplane. But I think sometimes people expect it to do things it isn't really designed to do.

Maybe I'm totally off base, but I don't think *any* LSA will do a great job of carrying a 190 and 235 pound couple of guys very far. It's not a Skycatcher problem, it's an LSA problem. LSAs aren't designed for big guys to take big trips.

I just looked at the numbers on the 162 I'll be flying. It can carry 18 gallons of fuel (2.5 hours + VFR reserves) and has 355 pounds remaining for pax/bags. That's about the same as my Cessna 140. Except the Skycatcher is 20 knots faster, has way more shoulder room, a glass cockpit, and can be flown under Sport Pilot rules...none of which can be said for my 140. To me, that's pretty cool.

 

[jrh]

Two big dudes after an hour flight? Not so much a problem for an experienced pilot. My main concern is with students learning to land... The hard way...

Refer back to #1 in my original post!

Fair enough. I need to fly it some more to get a feel for its landing characteristics.

As for weight and balance...I've run the numbers on our company's computerized W&B software this morning and can't find a combination that will be under MGTOW to start with, yet exceed the forward CG limit at any point during the flight.

Maybe the plane you flew had more avionics in the panel? The one we have is pretty bare. Just a G300 PFD, radio, and transponder. No MFD or autopilot.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Sure, I understand. It's a limited airplane. But I think sometimes people expect it to do things it isn't really designed to do.

Maybe I'm totally off base, but I don't think *any* LSA will do a great job of carrying a 190 and 235 pound couple of guys very far. It's not a Skycatcher problem, it's an LSA problem. LSAs aren't designed for big guys to take big trips.

I wouldn't characterize myself as "big" - or at least I wouldn't for my height. The operation was AT gross with my 5'7, thoroughly average instructor.

So you can see why it fails to push my buttons.

 

[jrh]

I wouldn't characterize myself as "big" - or at least I wouldn't for my height. The operation was AT gross with my 5'7, thoroughly average instructor.

I'm not saying you're big, but your instructor is.

The main point I'm trying to make though, is I'm not sure if any other LSA will do significantly better. None of the LSAs carry very much. Sometimes I hear people saying they don't like Skycatchers when in reality they're saying they don't like LSAs. Which is fine. But I'm just trying to be honest about what's going on.

So you can see why it fails to push my buttons.

Fair enough. I'm not trying to defend it. I don't know much about them, other than reading specs and having flown them for 20 minutes. I'm just saying, the little bit I've flown them, they seem pretty cool, and I'm trying to distinguish between what are actual problems versus what are perceptions or inherent limitations of the entire genre.

For instance, in this thread we've talked about:

Door openings in flight -- secondary door latch fixed it.
Issues with forward CG limit -- can't find a problem when I run calculations.
Doesn't carry much -- Carries about the same amount as my 140, which is a legendary airplane.
Tricky to land without striking tail -- Maybe? I don't know. Need more experience in them.