B787 type rating

milski

milski

Well-Known Member
A student asked me today and I did not have a good answer. Do the test pilots for the 787 have any specific limitation related to the type? Can they get a type rating before the plane is even certified?
 
One also wonders if a type is required for an experimental aircraft, since before issuance of a type certificate that's exactly what the 787 is.
 
milski said:
A student asked me today and I did not have a good answer. Do the test pilots for the 787 have any specific limitation related to the type? Can they get a type rating before the plane is even certified?
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Before the 787 took tooooo the skies, training devices were already operational and are normally approved for training for the FAA, test pilots & instructors.
 
Well, let's look at the regs. 61.31
(b) Authorization in lieu of a type rating. A person may be authorized to operate without a type rating for up to 60 days an aircraft requiring a type rating, provided --

(1) The Administrator has authorized the flight or series of flights;

(2) The Administrator has determined that an equivalent level of safety can be achieved through the operating limitations on the authorization;

(3) The person shows that compliance with paragraph (a) of this section is impracticable for the flight or series of flights; and

(4) The flight --

(i) Involves only a ferry flight, training flight, test flight, or practical test for a pilot certificate or rating;

(ii) Is within the United States;

(iii) Does not involve operations for compensation or hire unless the compensation or hire involves payment for the use of the aircraft for training or taking a practical test; and

(iv) Involves only the carriage of flight crewmembers considered essential for the flight.

(5) If the flight or series of flights cannot be accomplished within the time limit of the authorization, the Administrator may authorize an additional period of up to 60 days to accomplish the flight or series of flights.
Click to expand...
 
milski said:
A student asked me today and I did not have a good answer. Do the test pilots for the 787 have any specific limitation related to the type? Can they get a type rating before the plane is even certified?
Click to expand...

I was down at Gulfstream a number of years back when the G-V was coming into service. One of the test pilots who had been on the program since inception was preparing for a TYPE ride with an FAA inspector who had never flown the airplane but had gone through the new course in the simulator. The FAA guy was going to give the test pilot his type ride. The funny thing was the FAA guy was big on the electrical system and the pilot said, "We gotta know when and how the standby bus is powered. Right"

Anyway, from what I gleaned, there is no type on an experimental plane. Once it is certified the Feds then get typed and they give type rides to the guys who have been flying the machine.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Piggyback question on the original one. What about a totally experimental jet powered aircraft? How does the type rating work on those? For instance say I wanted to build either a Subsonex (http://www.sonexaircraft.com/research/subsonex.html) or a Viper Jet (http://viper-aircraft.com/home_f.html). What does one have to do to be approved to fly it?
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I would think an LOA would be required. Not a type but an LOA.

I doubt the FAA is going to let some guy with multi-bucks and little jet time drive off in his Viper, regardless.
 
For the experimental jets, you have to take a checkride similar to a type ride. However, on the back of your certificate it is classified as "Authorized Experimental Aircraft".

Greg
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
The aircraft doesn't require a type rating until it is certified. The test pilots operate under a LOA.
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Exactly... in fact the type certificate (under my understanding) is not even developed yet. That is what the entire test program is for!


To add on to what Orange Anchor said, I knew a guy in TLH that owned an L-39. The aircraft does not have a type as per the FAA and is flown under an experimental callsign (much like the 787 is). Instead of a type, you get an LOA from the FAA.

In my simpleton mind, I think of an LOA as a type where there is no defined type.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
To add on to what Orange Anchor said, I knew a guy in TLH that owned an L-39. The aircraft does not have a type as per the FAA and is flown under an experimental callsign (much like the 787 is). Instead of a type, you get an LOA from the FAA.
Click to expand...
That has changed. When I was working on L-39s a few summers ago, they required an "Experimental Type Rating". We had 2 airline (ex-military) guys on staff who had examining authority for L-39 type ratings.

This is what it looks like on the FAA Airman certificate page:
<table width="560" border="0"><tbody><tr><td width="190" align="left">rtificate:</td><td colspan="3" width="301" align="left"><nobr>AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT</nobr></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="560" border="0"><tbody><tr><td align="left">Rating(s):</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td align="left">AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND</td></tr><tr><td align="left">COMMERCIAL PRIVILEGES
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND</td></tr><tr><td align="left">PRIVATE PRIVILEGES
GLIDER</td></tr></tbody></table>

<center> Type Ratings</center>
<table bordercolorlight="#EAEAEA" size="560" border="0" bordercolor="#008080"><tbody><tr border="0"><td width="110" align="left"><nobr>A/B-737 </nobr></td><td width="110" align="left"><nobr>A/B-757 </nobr></td><td width="110" align="left"><nobr>A/B-767 </nobr></td><td width="110" align="left"><nobr>A/B-777 </nobr></td></tr></tbody></table>

<center> Limits</center>
<table bordercolorlight="#EAEAEA" size="560" border="0" bordercolor="#008080"><tbody><tr border="0"><td align="left">ENGLISH PROFICIENT.</td></tr><tr border="0"><td align="left">B-757 B-767 CIRC. APCH. - VMC ONLY.</td></tr><tr border="0"><td align="left">AUTHORIZED EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT: AV-L39.</td></tr></tbody></table>
 
Roger said:
That has changed. When I was working on L-39s a few summers ago, they required an "Experimental Type Rating". We had 2 airline (ex-military) guys on staff who had examining authority for L-39 type ratings.

This is what it looks like on the FAA Airman certificate page:
<table width="560" border="0"><tbody><tr><td width="190" align="left">rtificate:</td><td colspan="3" width="301" align="left"><nobr>AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT</nobr></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="560" border="0"><tbody><tr><td align="left">Rating(s):</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td align="left">AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND</td></tr><tr><td align="left">COMMERCIAL PRIVILEGES
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND</td></tr><tr><td align="left">PRIVATE PRIVILEGES
GLIDER</td></tr></tbody></table>

<center> Type Ratings</center>
<table bordercolorlight="#EAEAEA" size="560" border="0" bordercolor="#008080"><tbody><tr border="0"><td width="110" align="left"><nobr>A/B-737 </nobr></td><td width="110" align="left"><nobr>A/B-757 </nobr></td><td width="110" align="left"><nobr>A/B-767 </nobr></td><td width="110" align="left"><nobr>A/B-777 </nobr></td></tr></tbody></table>

<center> Limits</center>
<table bordercolorlight="#EAEAEA" size="560" border="0" bordercolor="#008080"><tbody><tr border="0"><td align="left">ENGLISH PROFICIENT.</td></tr><tr border="0"><td align="left">B-757 B-767 CIRC. APCH. - VMC ONLY.</td></tr><tr border="0"><td align="left">AUTHORIZED EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT: AV-L39.</td></tr></tbody></table>
Click to expand...


Ah...yeah that was almost 10 years ago. :)
 
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