Aviation subcommittee hearing - Live as of 9:30am

I was interested in the defense that "The NTSB has never found low pay to be a contributing factor in an accident"
 
This is really good stuff. If we are lucky they might rule that any flying done under a banner must be done with those carriers pilots....
 
Why isn't there a regional pilot from Colgan or Commutair or Mesa or any of the many abused regional guys and girls on the stand. These "experts" are only saying so much. Of course one of them, I won't mention his name, is dodging questions like they're rocks.
 
Nice point by the chairman at the end about the 8 hours of "rest" vs 8 hours of actual sleep.
 
Will this actually change anything for the better?

Or do they just want the American public to think they are doing something to make it better?


Regarding the 8 hours of crew rest. How can the FAA make sure that the crew gets 8 hours of actual sleep? The most information they can have is what time the crew checks in and checks out of the hotel. They can't put cameras in the hotel rooms verifying that the pilots get the necessary sleep.
 
fly.addict said:
The most information they can have is what time the crew checks in and checks out of the hotel. They can't put cameras in the hotel rooms verifying that the pilots get the necessary sleep.
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Worse.

The "rest" begins at duty-out, which is traditionally 15 minutes after the block in time.

It ends at duty-in.

Add in cab ride, a meal, a shower, bed, wake up, a shower, meal, cab ride, duty-in. . .and in some cases, you're certainly not getting anywhere near 8 hours of rest.
 
fly.addict said:
Regarding the 8 hours of crew rest. How can the FAA make sure that the crew gets 8 hours of actual sleep? The most information they can have is what time the crew checks in and checks out of the hotel. They can't put cameras in the hotel rooms verifying that the pilots get the necessary sleep.
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They can't however they can lengthen the "rest period" so that there is a reasonable expectation that a pilot could get 8 hours of sleep.
 
6 of us Colgan pilots were in attendance today, in full uniform.

Very interesting to say the least. Cohen is a bag of . During the testimony a Dorgan staffer crept up to us and asked if we agree with what was being said. This was after Cohen said that the average FO pay is $35k and CA $75k. We told her, in more polite terms, that Cohen is full of . She quickly walked backed to Dorgan and whispered in his ear.

Cohen dodged every question regarding pay, and Prater disagreed on most things he said and did a very good job of representing us.

MANY family members of the vicitims of 3407 in attendance. We spoke to many after the testimony. It was great to talk to them, they had alot of questions and Im glad we could answer them without it going through media, politicians or management.
 
v1valarob said:
6 of us Colgan pilots were in attendance today, in full uniform.

Very interesting to say the least. Cohen is a bag of . During the testimony a Dorgan staffer crept up to us and asked if we agree with what was being said. This was after Cohen said that the average FO pay is $35k and CA $75k. We told her, in more polite terms, that Cohen is full of . She quickly walked backed to Dorgan and whispered in his ear.

Cohen dodged every question regarding pay, and Prater disagreed on most things he said and did a very good job of representing us.

MANY family members of the vicitims of 3407 in attendance. We spoke to many after the testimony. It was great to talk to them, they had alot of questions and Im glad we could answer them without it going through media, politicians or management.
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So what is the next step? Some dirt on the regionals was aired, questioned of pay, work rules and safety were raised, but where does it go now? Will there be a follow up hearing for Cohen will present the most likely skewed data that Dorgan and others requested?

What is Dorgans angle asking how many of the regionals are making a profit and if any of them have gone bankrupt, what do you think he will do with this information? What about the entry level pay rate and duty time?

Can he mandate a minimum salary? If he does this and decreases maximum duty time wont that just increase the lengths of trips from 4 days to 5 days? While the increase in pay would be nice, being away from home longer would sort of cancel it out.

Sorry if some of these questions are obvious, I am not in the industry yet but would like to better understand what is going on and be prepared to help once I do enter.
 
SmitteyB said:
Everyone needs to submit comments to Senator Dorgan. Tell him about reduced rest and the issues we face EACH AND EVERY LEG!
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May I suggest that we all write in support of publicized safety standards?

Airline schedule stats are reported to the public. Those are really only so much a nuisance to travelers, and were implemented as a smear strategy from one airline to another. Seriously.

So why not publicize safety stats as a regular event?
 
fly.addict said:
Regarding the 8 hours of crew rest. How can the FAA make sure that the crew gets 8 hours of actual sleep? The most information they can have is what time the crew checks in and checks out of the hotel. They can't put cameras in the hotel rooms verifying that the pilots get the necessary sleep.
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Easy, to start exclude "local transportation" from being included in the rest period. Simple and quick. 15 minutes after you arrive at the hotel your rest period begins and you duty on at the hotel in the morning and travel to the airport while on duty.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
Easy, to start exclude "local transportation" from being included in the rest period. Simple and quick. 15 minutes after you arrive at the hotel your rest period begins and you duty on at the hotel in the morning and travel to the airport while on duty.
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This does leave things open to exploitation.

There has to be a countercheck. Personally, I think 10 hours rest should be the absolute minimum, with 11 the ideal.

If you can get to the hotel, have a few minutes to eat, wind down, get eight hours sleep, then get up, prepare, and show in your allotted rest period, it's too short.
 
It's all pretty interesting... Soon, Colgan will make it official that we are not to take any legs that would put us over 8 hours. Legal to start/finish is going to be a on a Per leg basis.. which is fine.

But, this happened to a crew last tues. They were scheduled 5 legs, 7:53 block, showing at 4:45 am, quick turns all day, ending 12 hours later. No break scheduled for a reasonable meal. The crew hits ewr after 3 legs. Delays have not been bad, but they are now scheduled at 7:59... still legal. The next flight leaves EWR right after the noon rush, so it should be ok for the leg home... but why risk it? if they take more then a 1 minute delay they are done, and a flight is getting canceled. SOP pretty much doesn't care.

The crew does everything they can to get in on time. The last leg can go.. they will be "scheduled" at 1 minute less than 8 hours. Unfortunately, the crew knows that they will not even come close to < 8 hours flying. Ground stop ewr. Holding etc. Everybody knows at 4 pm on a weekday in ewr, you are getting delayed.

Crew takes that 1:55 blocked flight and spends 2:15 in the air, and another 35 on the ground, putting them at 14 hours without meal, break, or rest... as well as 40 minutes or so over the "maximum" flight time... and SOP/mgmt did this without batting an eye, because it was "legal" until this "it was legal" falls to the wayside of "it was safer", nothing will change.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
It's all pretty interesting... Soon, Colgan will make it official that we are not to take any legs that would put us over 8 hours. Legal to start/finish is going to be a on a Per leg basis.. which is fine.

But, this happened to a crew last tues. They were scheduled 5 legs, 7:53 block, showing at 4:45 am, quick turns all day, ending 12 hours later. No break scheduled for a reasonable meal. The crew hits ewr after 3 legs. Delays have not been bad, but they are now scheduled at 7:59... still legal. The next flight leaves EWR right after the noon rush, so it should be ok for the leg home... but why risk it? if they take more then a 1 minute delay they are done, and a flight is getting canceled. SOP pretty much doesn't care.

The crew does everything they can to get in on time. The last leg can go.. they will be "scheduled" at 1 minute less than 8 hours. Unfortunately, the crew knows that they will not even come close to < 8 hours flying. Ground stop ewr. Holding etc. Everybody knows at 4 pm on a weekday in ewr, you are getting delayed.

Crew takes that 1:55 blocked flight and spends 2:15 in the air, and another 35 on the ground, putting them at 14 hours without meal, break, or rest... as well as 40 minutes or so over the "maximum" flight time... and SOP/mgmt did this without batting an eye, because it was "legal" until this "it was legal" falls to the wayside of "it was safer", nothing will change.
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I will preface this by stating, I wasn't there.....but the way you described the situation, I would say shame on the Captain for not ensuring everyone got at least a couple minutes on a turn to go to the terminal and grab some food. If there was a delay as a result, OH WELL! I would welcome the company to challenge a Captain on that one......FAA, media, NTSB, Senate, House......well, you get the idea.
 
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