Auto bill requires companies to axe flight dept.

but keeping 3-4 multi-million dollar aircraft and the pilots needed to fly them can't be very cost effective.

First, I think your cost estimate is low. Second, I suppose it depends on how much you're using it in support of your business. If you're flying your business aircraft more then 200-300 hours a year it is pretty much common knowledge that it's cheaper to own than it is to use a fractional.
 
First, I think your cost estimate is low. Second, I suppose it depends on how much you're using it in support of your business. If you're flying your business aircraft more then 200-300 hours a year it is pretty much common knowledge that it's cheaper to own than it is to use a fractional.

I wasn't saying $3-4 million, just in case there was a misinterpretation there.

Anyone as large as GM or Ford is not going to be your typical fractional client. They've got enough pull that they can probably dictate pretty favorable terms that would make it worth their while.
 
I wasn't saying $3-4 million, just in case there was a misinterpretation there.

Anyone as large as GM or Ford is not going to be your typical fractional client. They've got enough pull that they can probably dictate pretty favorable terms that would make it worth their while.

Simple math.

The more you fly your OWN airplane, the less it costs per hour to pay the airplane note, pay your own pilots, pay your own insurance, pay your own hangar rent, etc etc.

Regardless of how many hours you charter a plane, it still costs you the same per hour. There are no good deals in chartering.
 
True, but the fractionals won't operate at a loss either. They have to profit (shareholders like that) whereas an internal flight department does not need to make a profit. It also offers tighter controls that some companies appreciate. They know the flight crews by name. They control training, maintenance, security... you name it.

The fractionals, though they have an outstanding business model, are not the business aircraft panacea for EVERY corporation.
 
Anyone think they will just "sell" the airplanes to a new charter company that their companies happen to own and operate. This gets the planes off their books and satisfies congress while keeping theire ability to operate efficiently.
 
If companies are going to come and ask, and subsequently get a loan from the government - that loan comes with conditions.

Don't like the conditions, don't take the loan.

Big deal, let's move onto the next failing American industry.

No private lender would make a loan contingent on such ridiculous requirements. Corporate jets are business tools that increase productivity, not perks that the company throws at management "just because." This is what happens when you get in bed with the government. This is just the first step. Expect the automakers to start requiring all sorts of design features that the american public either doesn't want, can't afford, or both.

The automakers would be better off declaring bankruptcy and restructuring.
 
The other day I was next to a pretty nice looking car. The side profile was extremely nice, kind of reminded me of the new TLs. It then moved forward and I saw the badge "Pontiac G8." I then stopped looking.

Ford especially needs to start bringing over some of the cars that they have over in Europe. The old Escorts in Europe were sexy. The cosworth especially. They have tons of "small" cars that in this climate would sell much better than a big SUV.

When I see a Ford in England, I dont get the same stereotypical "POS" attitude about it as I do over here.

It's exactly that attitude. Why would you stop looking. Pontiac is using their international platform on this. It out handles and accelerates a BMW 550 and I guarantee its a hell of a lot more reliable with a 6.0L V8. It also gets 25 mpg. It is a hell of a car I test drove one and was very impressed and I would totally reccomend checking it out.

2 of the 10 most reliable engines are the GM 350 V8 and the GM 3.8L V6.
 
It's exactly that attitude. Why would you stop looking. Pontiac is using their international platform on this. It out handles and accelerates a BMW 550 and I guarantee its a hell of a lot more reliable with a 6.0L V8. It also gets 25 mpg. It is a hell of a car I test drove one and was very impressed and I would totally reccomend checking it out.

2 of the 10 most reliable engines are the GM 350 V8 and the GM 3.8L V6.
:yeahthat::yeahthat: Pontiac gives me a glimmer of hope for GM.

Although I do NOT like what they are doing to the 2010 model of the G8. It's an El Camino. :mad: I'm sure that appeals to some, just not me.
 
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