Auto bill requires companies to axe flight dept.

Low_Level_Hell

Well-Known Member
Read this today about the auto bailout:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/10/news/companies/auto_bailout_legislation/index.htm

"....But the bill also sets strict oversight of the companies.
There would be limits on executive pay, prohibitions for so-called golden parachutes and requirements that the automakers get rid of their corporate aircraft and not pay dividends while loans are outstanding...."

This looks pretty bad for corporate aviation. Wonder if this will start a trend for companies to get rid of their corporate jets in order to boost PR. Though I have no experience in large business or corp. aviation it seems to me it would be irresponsible productivity-wise not to utilize their own aircraft for business for Fortune 500 companies like GM . Wonder how the personnel in the flight dept view congress now that they are pretty much out of a job thanks to them. Also considering how the goverment its self uses corporate aircraft for their officials and legislators all the time.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
If companies are going to come and ask, and subsequently get a loan from the government - that loan comes with conditions.

Don't like the conditions, don't take the loan.

Big deal, let's move onto the next failing American industry.
 

TFaudree_ERAU

Mashin' dem buttons
If companies are going to come and ask, and subsequently get a loan from the government - that loan comes with conditions.

Don't like the conditions, don't take the loan.

Big deal, let's move onto the next failing American industry.
I'll rephrase for you...

"If investment banks and lenders are going to come and ask, and subsequently get a $700 billion loan from the government - that loan allows you to be fiscally irresponsible by taking your employees on a half million dollar "celebration" retreat.

If auto makers are going to come and ask, and subsequently get a loan, which was less than 1/10th the amount of the other one, from the government - that loan comes with conditions because we really screwed up with the last one by not keeping track of the way the money was used."

There you go Josh...I think thats what you meant to say.
 

WalterSobchak

Well-Known Member
<image removed>
Nice and I always get a warning when I have something like that in my post. :rolleyes:

It's that misconception that keeps people away from US cars. In the late 70's - mid late 80's I would agree with that statement. Right now the US makes cars as good as any one around the world. The last statement(we are the big 3 we don't need to compete) is funny considering Germany and Japan subsidize their car manufacturers.
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Nice and I always get a warning when I have something like that in my post. :rolleyes:

It's that misconception that keeps people away from US cars. In the late 70's - mid late 80's I would agree with that statement. Right now the US makes cars as good as any one around the world. The last statement(we are the big 3 we don't need to compete) is funny considering Germany and Japan subsidize their car manufacturers.
The other day I was next to a pretty nice looking car. The side profile was extremely nice, kind of reminded me of the new TLs. It then moved forward and I saw the badge "Pontiac G8." I then stopped looking.

Ford especially needs to start bringing over some of the cars that they have over in Europe. The old Escorts in Europe were sexy. The cosworth especially. They have tons of "small" cars that in this climate would sell much better than a big SUV.

When I see a Ford in England, I dont get the same stereotypical "POS" attitude about it as I do over here.
 

JeffMSU

New Member
Then why does Toyota and Honda consistently beat out the Big three in quality and dependability. Just pick up the any Consumer Reports mag.

Its sad to see the flight departments get axed only because some PR person in one of the companies did not think of how congress and the public would view three separate private jets leaving from Detroit to head to D.C. I guess the charter companies around Detroit, Oakland Co, Troy, and Ann Arbor will be happy with the extra business because there is no way that these execs will be flying commercial or continue driving some hybrid across the country.
 

JEP

Malko In Charge
Staff member
Nice and I always get a warning when I have something like that in my post. :rolleyes:

It's that misconception that keeps people away from US cars. In the late 70's - mid late 80's I would agree with that statement. Right now the US makes cars as good as any one around the world. The last statement(we are the big 3 we don't need to compete) is funny considering Germany and Japan subsidize their car manufacturers.
Do you KNOW the user did not receive a warning?????

Next question!
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
If you see content that you think shouldn't be up, please report the post. The mods have lives & jobs and can't possibly respond to everything instantly.
Damn, a brother just got up too and the other moderator is upstairs brushing her teeth.

Should we give Mr. Sobchack a pager so when he feels slighted, he can immediately beep us? :)

WS, relax a little or you're going to have a coronary.
 

N826AW

Snooki's Baby Daddy
Dude, the G8 is one of the hottest cars GM builds. It was designed b Holden for the Australian market where it has done very well. There is a V8 GXP model coming out next year that posts M5 numbers for less than half the price.

Beyond performance numbers, the fit/finish/material quality is not too shabby either.
 

Barty

Well-Known Member
Then why does Toyota and Honda consistently beat out the Big three in quality and dependability. Just pick up the any Consumer Reports mag.
I think most of it is perception or from talking to folks who have sworn off domestics, dealer service, or a lack thereof. My former neighbors used to buy Ford until a dealer gave them the run-around about fixing something on their car, it took them 4-5 trips to get it done right because they just kept throwing parts at the problem instead of bucking up and replacing the transmission the first time.

Its sad to see the flight departments get axed only because some PR person in one of the companies did not think of how congress and the public would view three separate private jets leaving from Detroit to head to D.C. I guess the charter companies around Detroit, Oakland Co, Troy, and Ann Arbor will be happy with the extra business because there is no way that these execs will be flying commercial or continue driving some hybrid across the country.
Frankly, I'm surprised that it has taken this long for these corporate fleets to come under scrutiny. I understand that standard commercial travel isn't an option for the execs, but keeping 3-4 multi-million dollar aircraft and the pilots needed to fly them can't be very cost effective. I guess the lack of oversight and governance at the top is what has kept them off the chopping block in favor of negotiating a contract with a local charter outfit.
 

JEP

Malko In Charge
Staff member
Damn, a brother just got up too and the other moderator is upstairs brushing her teeth.

Should we give Mr. Sobchack a pager so when he feels slighted, he can immediately beep us? :)

WS, relax a little or you're going to have a coronary.
...and I'm at *cough*work*cough*
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
I'm surprised about the stipulation to get rid of the corporate flight department as that's just more jobs lost.

On top of that, we certainly didn't require Lehman brothers to cut salaries or scuttle private jets, and largely just threw money at them with few strings.

OOOOOOOOH, dangit, I forgot, a union wasn't involved at Lehman so there was no labor "boogeyman".
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Dude, the G8 is one of the hottest cars GM builds. It was designed b Holden for the Australian market where it has done very well. There is a V8 GXP model coming out next year that posts M5 numbers for less than half the price.

Beyond performance numbers, the fit/finish/material quality is not too shabby either.
I assumed it was designed by Holden.

Holden is the only reason I took a second look at the GTO.
 

PanJet

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised about the stipulation to get rid of the corporate flight department as that's just more jobs lost.

On top of that, we certainly didn't require Lehman brothers to cut salaries or scuttle private jets, and largely just threw money at them with few strings.

OOOOOOOOH, dangit, I forgot, a union wasn't involved at Lehman so there was no labor "boogeyman".
I don't think we threw anything (especially money) at Lehman, which is why they don't really exist anymore. We threw the money at all their leftover competitors after they failed.
 

Number1atNumber2

Tries to keep it fun.
Dude, the G8 is one of the hottest cars GM builds. It was designed b Holden for the Australian market where it has done very well. There is a V8 GXP model coming out next year that posts M5 numbers for less than half the price.

Beyond performance numbers, the fit/finish/material quality is not too shabby either.

Yeah, the G8 is actually a pretty nice car. I'm actually very much interested in getting one.


Ok back to the original topic:

A lot of places are trying to get rid of their corporate jets, the problem is no one is buying them.
 

n57flyguy

Well-Known Member
The other day I was next to a pretty nice looking car. The side profile was extremely nice, kind of reminded me of the new TLs. It then moved forward and I saw the badge "Pontiac G8." I then stopped looking.
If I may add, the new G8 is freaking sexy.

and the GXP....6.2 V8...that thing is gonna move
 
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