ATP and GPS (how much will I need to know?)

aviategw

aviategw

Well-Known Member
Guys,

How in-depth will I have to be with the Garmin 430? I'm pretty good at direct to, I can load and activate approaches with the appropriate transitions, and I can sorta scroll through the pages. I'm not quite good enough to do a complex flight plan. I'm okay with it, but not great. Granted, I have 13.5 hours of flight instruction coming my way, but how much time should I devote to studying the Garmin? I've got the simulator and have downloaded and printed the 3 inch thick instruction manual.

Thanks!
 
Honestly, you can get away with just knowing the basics and getting comfortable doing the following:

-loading and editing flight plans
-loading approaches
-knowing what to do when going missed

If you've mastered those two items, you'll be in a good position to learn the other features within the 430 during your training. I had absolutely no 430 experience when I started training; it took a bit to get used to, but I finally got comfortable with it towards the end of my instrument training. The biggest hurdle was getting proficient enough so I could load both 430s in a timely manner during instrument training sessions when shooting back-to-back approaches without getting behind the plane. Hope that helps.
 
You pretty much know everything you need to know already. If you are doing the Career Pilot program you will have PLENTY of time to play with the GPS on your XCs. There are some useful shortcut buttons as well that you will get to know. Other then that, as was already said, just know how to direct to, how to load and edit a flight plan and how to work approaches as well as find "nearest" information (big nob all the way to the right.)

Ethan
 
I just did the CFII/MEI program and knew NOTHING about loading and flying GPS approaches.

ATP's instructors literally taught me everything I currently know about GPS approaches.

I would presume they will be MUCH more in depth with their career pilots.

Either way - you're in great hands!

Best of luck and keep us posted!

R2F
 
While we use the GPS extensively, I encourage students (AND other instructors) to teach navigation via VORs as well. I frequently teach students that are nearly lost without the mighty GNS430, and have poor VOR/DME skills. I suggest learning the Garmin, but also learn how to do it the old fashioned way-get a cross radial fix, track to a VOR, hold off of a standard OBS, and use the GNS430 for DME. This will serve you well in your career, since most other aircraft are not as well equipped as ours, and don't have that nifty "direct to" button.
 
Well, if I could only have a DME in the A/C, I wouldn't need all this fancy-schmancy technology.

(best old person voice) In my day, sonny, we had to walk uphill, both ways, in the snow, in July, to get to the airplane, which only had a compass, and an altimeter, AND WE LIKED IT!

I hear what you are saying about the VOR nav skills going by the wayside. I sometimes fly with some Civil Air Patrol guys who would be clueless without the 'direct to' button. If the Seminoles had DME, along with the HSI and other CDI display, I think I'd worry a lot less about my upcoming checkride. I don't think I'm going to have a problem flying the A/C, and I know how to fly IFR, I just don't want to CFIT on the checkride whilst trying to fiddle with knobs on the DUAL 430s.

I'm probably just paranoid.

Thanks for the advice!
 
The GPS is a legal substitute for DME, that was one of my points. Press Direct, enter the VOR indentifier, then press enter twice. The bottom right of the screen displays the DME. It's linear DME, not slant-range, but is very close and is legal. That's how I fly a VOR/DME approach myself.

With dual 430's the best use of the second unit is as a DME. Just set it up before takeoff.
 
I just learned yesterday that the the S-Tec Autopilots we use in our seminoles will fly a no gyro approach as long as it is loaded into the GPS.

To test this, we did the a VOR/DME approach with a published arc and hit direct to the IAF, pulled the compass CB and it flew the arc, then intercepted inbound, all we had to do was decend.

It is pretty cool knowing that if we lost gyros that it would be able to fly the approach and drop the workload of the pilot considerably.
 
You need to know how to fly in the instrument enviorment and even the VFR enviorment the old way. I just finished some training with a CFII/MEI and had the GPS failed for some unknown reason, I think he would have cried and paniced.

I learned the old way and am very proficent on a Garmin 430. I try not to put all my eggs in one basket. GPS is extremely reliable, but there is always that one in a million problem. I have had two total electrical failures and I even used a cell phone to get back to call the tower . Point being learn the old ways first. My instructor yelled at me because I would not follow the line on the GPS when I had the airplane lined up on a 15 mile final with the airport in sight.

I knew where I was and he flipped out because he could not see the airport. I am a CFI with 600 hrs not fresh off the street. I will not let my private students use it until they become proficent in reading a map.
 
Well, the first day of my 15 hour CFII/MEI program is done. My MEI told me not to worry about today. I flew like s**t. Couldn't keep the heading, couldn't keep altitude, couldn't remember any of the checklists. I flew awful, I feel awful.

This was not the way that I thought it would go today. S***!!!!

Well, on to approaches tomorrow.
 
Tomorrow can only be better then.
smile.gif
 
Wednesday night progress report

Okay, Wednesday night: tomorrow is my last day of training before my checkride, on Friday. My instructors have been great, and I feel like I'm starting to know which end is supposed to be pointed into the relative wind. I guage this feel by how far behind the airplane I feel after each flight. On Sunday, I was so far behind the airplane that it landed a good 20 minutes before I did.

Did an ILS into Huntsville yesterday. My MEI failed the right engine, as I was trying to intercept the localizer inbound from the left. Instead of a nice 30 degree correction angle, I completely botched the engine failure, and wound up with a 90 correction to get onto the final approach course. ugly, ugly, Ugly.

Sooooo, today, I failed lotsa engines on myself in the sim. (I made a rule that I would fail an engine anytime anyone interrupted me in the sim room. That way, I didn't really know when they were coming.) I was screwing up by jumping into the mixtures, props, throttles routine before I maintained aircraft control. As long as I pay attention to maintaining aircraft control, i.e., heading, I do okay.

Also, I think that I have been smoking fast on my approaches. This is bad because it makes everything quicker. I can fly just about any approach in a 182, it's just the extra speed of the Seminole that has been causing me fits. If I slow it down, I do much better.

I'm going to do some work with double 430's tomorrow, as my other two flights were in the older airplane with a single 430. I would just about kill for an autopilot right now.

I'm mostly just venting at the moment, having spent the last few hours playing with the Garmin sim that I downloaded. Brain is dead.
insane.gif
 
Re: Wednesday night progress report

[ QUOTE ]
Sooooo, today, I failed lotsa engines on myself in the sim. (I made a rule that I would fail an engine anytime anyone interrupted me in the sim room. That way, I didn't really know when they were coming.) I was screwing up by jumping into the mixtures, props, throttles routine before I maintained aircraft control. As long as I pay attention to maintaining aircraft control, i.e., heading, I do okay.


[/ QUOTE ]

Remember that when Clyde fails your engine on you it will be obvious which one it is. When you slide the operating engine's throttle forward you should be able anticipate the amount of rudder and bank needed to keep your heading.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I think that I have been smoking fast on my approaches. This is bad because it makes everything quicker. I can fly just about any approach in a 182, it's just the extra speed of the Seminole that has been causing me fits. If I slow it down, I do much better.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just make sure that when you make your "Blueline: GUMPP" callout that your airspeed is actually near blueline.
 
Re: Wednesday night progress report

It's fascinating to me that the closer I get to my CFII checkride, the more I'm praying for something close to VFR weather. I don't know why, but VMC is a whole hell of a lot easier to fly on the guages in than IMC.
 
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