Army WOCS

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Weston

New Member
First off, I'd just like to say hello! I stumbled on this site the other day, and after lurking for awhile I've finally decided to reg up and ask some questions :D

Alright, I'll cut right to it. I'm 19 years old, and I'm a sophomore at the University of Iowa. I have roughly 26 credits, with a 2.09 GPA (Pathetic, I'm aware. More on that later.). For as long as I can remember, I've wanted nothing more with my life than to be an Army helicopter pilot. However, I'd always thought of it as a 'phase' I was going through, and that I would find some major in school or some profession out there that I would fall in love with. Well, here we are, 19 years later, and my desire to fly is greater than ever, as well as my loathing of school. I've finally decided to act on it, and read everything I could find on the internet in respect to which route to go that would be the quickest/most efficient way to achieve my goal. I went down to the local recruiters office to discuss my options with an actual person. However, I'm still at a loss as to which route would be the most beneficial to me. As far as I understand it, I could start putting a packet together and start jumping through the hoops of the Highschool to Flightschool program, which, ideally, is what I would prefer to do. The other option I've been told would be to enlist, and choose an MOS working directly with the birds and their respective crews, then apply to WOCS a short time later. Obviously which route to pick depends on the individual, which is precisely why I'm here. This would be my prospective 'Highschool to Flightschool' resume:

19 years old, 20 in March. Near perfect vision, good physical shape. 4 year Highschool Varsity swimmer, and was a captain my senior year. Member of the quill and scroll Journalism 'society', art editor for the highschool yearbook. Marching band for 2 years. 26 on my ACT, and scored an 80 on the practice ASVAB at the recruiter's office. I've had plenty of jobs, never been fired, clean criminal record except for a few speeding tickets and a disorderly house violation (loud music, basically). Re-Founding Father of the Iowa Beta chapter of the Phi Delta Theta Fraternity. Lots of community service/philanthropy hours. 26 College credits, 2.09 GPA. 3.47 HS GPA. All that plus a few other things I'm forgetting. Oh, and ZERO flight experience (though I'm planning on taking the ground portion of a PPL this Feb.)

Basically, I'm terrified of what my grades will do to my packet. I'd be the first to say that they're not the best; quite the contrary as a matter of fact. Not to sound cocky, arrogant, or anything of the sort, but I like to consider myself a pretty smart person with quite a bit higher than average intelligence. Like I said, I got a 26 on my ACT and never studied for it a day in my life. With that said, I'm just not meant for college, or anymore 'real' schooling in general (with the Highschool to Flightschool classes/programs as the exception, seeing as they pertain DIRECTLY to what I want to do with my life. I hope that makes sense :P). I'm fully aware that that sounds ridiculous, but it's just not my thing. I've never been a fan of studying, simply because the stuff I would study would hold no interest to me in the least. However, I bought the ARCO study guide for the AFAST a week or so ago, and haven't been able to put it down. Why? Because it interests me, and applies directly to what I want to do in my life. I don't even have a date for the AFAST yet, but I've studied more for it in the last week than for the exams I have this upcoming week. Which, quite frankly, scares me. I'm terrified that any board that looks at my packet will see my GPA and toss me straight into the 'No.' pile without a second guess.
Alright, sorry for that massive bit of background info. I'll get on to the actual questions now :P

• First and foremost; is my GPA really that important? I feel like a high GT and AFAST score with a mediocre GPA would be much more of an advantage than a high GPA and mediocre GT and AFAST.
• Will my list of 'extra-curricular' activities be of an advantage at all? I mean I'm sure it doesn't hurt to have them by any means, but I'm curious if they actually would make that much of a difference in the end. Multiple ones are leadership positions, and I feel like the fact that I was a founding father of (no lie here) the best Fraternity on campus?
• Should I just say it, enlist, and bust my ass there?

I'm sure I'll come up with more questions, and I appreciate all and any comments. I hope I don't come off as a total nooblet or anything, and if this is in the wrong forum please feel free to delete/move/let me know/whatever. Oh, and also, I realize there is much more to getting accepted into the program, but these are my immediate concerns. I'll cross those other bridges when I get to them :P

Thanks again, and I hope you guys can help me out :)

-Weston
 
Weston said:
I have roughly 26 credits, with a 2.09 GPA (Pathetic, I'm aware. More on that later.). -Weston
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That is pretty pathetic. But look at the bright side, its all about timing regards grades or any other measure out there......certain things are important one year, not important the next. Case in point, my equally pathetic way-back-when 2.40 college GPA, and yet I still managed to fly the A-10 and ultimately the F-117 in the USAF. Apart from criminal record and/or flight physical limitations, which are game stoppers, other things may or may not be at any given year.
 
Your a sophmore in college, I say finish up your degree and improve that GPA. Don't just drop academics and expect to excel in the Army, they are looking for an individual who is able to commit to something. Finishing your degree proves that. It will also make you much more competitive when it comes time to board.
 
Well I went down to the office today and started filling out my SF86. I decided that I may as well give it a shot. I'm transferring to a community college next semester anyway, for two reasons. One being it'll be a bit easier and I can bring my GPA up, and two, it'll be enormously cheaper and will allow me to start the ground portion of a PPL in February. Worst case scenario is I don't get accepted, and I have to go the enlistment route (which I obviously don't want to do, but if it eventually lands me in the pilot seat then so be it). Time to start studying for the ASVAB and AFAST. I'm gonna need to crush those bastards. Odds are against me, but I'll be in the air with you guys someday. I apprecaite the responses! Please keep em' coming :beer:

edit: for some reason the board spaced my post weird.
 
Ground portion of the ppl? That sounds like it'll not exactly be fun..... get in the air. You can study for all the knowledge things on your own, just need to buy a book or two. IMO, there is absolutely no need to have a ppl ground school unless you are not capable of studying on your own.
 
Just know that a career as a military aviator may not always involve doing things that interest you....being able to find some sort of satisfaction in doing some of the jobs that you might not wish for will be important in the future if you decide to pursue this. It isn't all flying around and blowing stuff up. Flight school is hard in this way too....if you think you are having trouble staying motivated after 26 credits, you don't want to see the backside of 2 years in mil flight training. Not that there aren't lots of cool experiences, but just keep in mind that there is a lot of hard work, studying, and suck thrown in for good measure.
 
///AMG said:
Just know that a career as a military aviator may not always involve doing things that interest you....being able to find some sort of satisfaction in doing some of the jobs that you might not wish for will be important in the future if you decide to pursue this. It isn't all flying around and blowing stuff up.
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Like others have said above, do some research into what this whole process entails. Yes, it's great and more fun than most cube-dwellers, but there is plenty of suck to go along with it. If your poor GPA is linked to an "I-won't-need-to-know-that-in-real-life" attitude towards studying, any military aviation program will be tough. This isn't a faster, shinier version of a King Schools PPL course. Guys like AMG and MikeD have spent years studying what most would find absolutely boring, mundane details of their jets. I spent an hour tonight studying a circuit breaker panel. That will really impress the ladies.

As AMG said, there are plenty of cool experiences - formation flights with your buddies, flying your first solo loop, things like that at my stage of the game - but there is definitely a good dose of suck thrown in. Check out the forums here, make some contacts, search over at BaseOps, etc.
 
Weston said:
Worst case scenario is I don't get accepted, and I have to go the enlistment route (which I obviously don't want to do, but if it eventually lands me in the pilot seat then so be it).
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Be carefull with how you say that when you apply, if the board thinks you consider yourself too good to be an enlisted man (most WOs are prior enlisted) your application will get tossed PDQ.

It's one thing to say, "I want to serve, and I really hope I can do so by flying helos." It is another to say, "If I can't be a pilot then forget about it."


If you are trying to get on with a Guard unit, I can tell you they almost always promote from within those units. No way are they going to hire someone off the street when Sgt Smith has been busting his butt for 5 years to earn a AWOCS slot.
 
Weston said:
Well I went down to the office today and started filling out my SF86. I decided that I may as well give it a shot. I'm transferring to a community college next semester anyway, for two reasons. One being it'll be a bit easier and I can bring my GPA up, and two, it'll be enormously cheaper and will allow me to start the ground portion of a PPL in February. Worst case scenario is I don't get accepted, and I have to go the enlistment route (which I obviously don't want to do, but if it eventually lands me in the pilot seat then so be it). Time to start studying for the ASVAB and AFAST. I'm gonna need to crush those bastards. Odds are against me, but I'll be in the air with you guys someday. I apprecaite the responses! Please keep em' coming :beer:

edit: for some reason the board spaced my post weird.
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Be careful with that.

As far as the ASVAB, if you want a free ASVAB for Dummies book, PM me. I picked it up this past Summer so it is relatively current.
 
USMCmech said:
If you are trying to get on with a Guard unit, I can tell you they almost always promote from within those units. No way are they going to hire someone off the street when Sgt Smith has been busting his butt for 5 years to earn a AWOCS slot.
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Though it is possible as me and some other members have done. However getting that slot is a job in and of itself, and a 2.1 might not even get you invited to interview...
 
USMCmech said:
Be carefull with how you say that when you apply, if the board thinks you consider yourself too good to be an enlisted man (most WOs are prior enlisted) your application will get tossed PDQ.

It's one thing to say, "I want to serve, and I really hope I can do so by flying helos." It is another to say, "If I can't be a pilot then forget about it."


If you are trying to get on with a Guard unit, I can tell you they almost always promote from within those units. No way are they going to hire someone off the street when Sgt Smith has been busting his butt for 5 years to earn a AWOCS slot.
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:yeahthat:
 
Why exactly do you want to be a helicopter pilot in the Army? Is it because it is the only military branch that has a program for non-degree holding officers? Essentially what it boils down to is that it appears that you're looking for an easy road to travel, which is prevalent in today's Army. You would be further contributing to what I call the Army's "Principle of the Least Common Denominator." In the future of the Warrant Officer Corps, getting promoted to CW3 will nearly be impossible without a degree. We are already flooded with pilots and we don't have a need for any more. What do you have to offer that would make you an asset to this organization? You're a "founding father" of a fraternity, and you don't have the discipline to finish a collegiate program of study. The one quarter of which you did finish, you barely passed.

Okay, after you digest that, I recommend you do some soul searching about what you really want to accomplish. You are in the best phase of your life to get your degree knocked out. Hanging out with your friends and drinking beer really can't be that bad of a lifestyle to deal with right now. Guess what, I hate studying too but it is part of life. You will be required to invest time learning whatever trade you ultimately choose. If you want be be in the military then do it the right way and get an education, you will have nearly every option open to you when you do choose to join. The goal here is to set up for success in the future, get the hard work out of the way now. If you want a taste of the military while in school, look into ROTC options or joining a guard unit. Most importantly, get better grades and get a degree.

I have been on nearly every side of the fence regarding the WOCS program. After a few years wearing a green suit, a few deployments under my belt, and talking with lots of people, here is what I determined about the military. You can lead a great life as a serviceman as long as you are never in the position of needing them. Make them need you, make yourself an asset to the organization.

You have one life to live, one shot at the prize. Do you want to start your journey by dropping out of college. You do seem like a smart guy, your ability to construct sentences and paragraphs are indicative of that. Replace your laziness with self-discipline (to finish something you started), and you will be a successful young man.

You're lucky I got to you before Ollie did. You're welcome.
 
Lefty said:
Why exactly do you want to be a helicopter pilot in the Army? Is it because it is the only military branch that has a program for non-degree holding officers? Essentially what it boils down to is that it appears that you're looking for an easy road to travel, which is prevalent in today's Army. You would be further contributing to what I call the Army's "Principle of the Least Common Denominator." In the future of the Warrant Officer Corps, getting promoted to CW3 will nearly be impossible without a degree. We are already flooded with pilots and we don't have a need for any more. What do you have to offer that would make you an asset to this organization? You're a "founding father" of a fraternity, and you don't have the discipline to finish a collegiate program of study. The one quarter of which you did finish, you barely passed.

Okay, after you digest that, I recommend you do some soul searching about what you really want to accomplish. You are in the best phase of your life to get your degree knocked out. Hanging out with your friends and drinking beer really can't be that bad of a lifestyle to deal with right now. Guess what, I hate studying too but it is part of life. You will be required to invest time learning whatever trade you ultimately choose. If you want be be in the military then do it the right way and get an education, you will have nearly every option open to you when you do choose to join. The goal here is to set up for success in the future, get the hard work out of the way now. If you want a taste of the military while in school, look into ROTC options or joining a guard unit. Most importantly, get better grades and get a degree.

I have been on nearly every side of the fence regarding the WOCS program. After a few years wearing a green suit, a few deployments under my belt, and talking with lots of people, here is what I determined about the military. You can lead a great life as a serviceman as long as you are never in the position of needing them. Make them need you, make yourself an asset to the organization.

You have one life to live, one shot at the prize. Do you want to start your journey by dropping out of college. You do seem like a smart guy, your ability to construct sentences and paragraphs are indicative of that. Replace your laziness with self-discipline (to finish something you started), and you will be a successful young man.

You're lucky I got to you before Ollie did. You're welcome.
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Good words. And sage advice.

(Even more impressive coming from an Army guy. :D)
 
MikeD said:
Good words. And sage advice.

(Even more impressive coming from an Army guy. :D)
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I'm all about wearing the US Army tag and not drinking the koolaid. It leads to decisions being made based on common sense and benefits the rest of you uniform wearing brothers and sisters.

MikeD, when I get home from this fun little field trip we will have to grab dinner again, on me this time!
 
Lefty said:
I'm all about wearing the US Army tag and not drinking the koolaid. It leads to decisions being made based on common sense and benefits the rest of you uniform wearing brothers and sisters.

MikeD, when I get home from this fun little field trip we will have to grab dinner again, on me this time!
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Sounds good partner! Let me know.
 
For the OP...

Just don't mention your GPA if your worried about it. I didn't tell the Army about my one semester of college and they took me anyways. I think it was my good looks that won them over.
 
Lefty said:
Why exactly do you want to be a helicopter pilot in the Army? Is it because it is the only military branch that has a program for non-degree holding officers? Essentially what it boils down to is that it appears that you're looking for an easy road to travel, which is prevalent in today's Army. You would be further contributing to what I call the Army's "Principle of the Least Common Denominator." In the future of the Warrant Officer Corps, getting promoted to CW3 will nearly be impossible without a degree. We are already flooded with pilots and we don't have a need for any more. What do you have to offer that would make you an asset to this organization? You're a "founding father" of a fraternity, and you don't have the discipline to finish a collegiate program of study. The one quarter of which you did finish, you barely passed.

Okay, after you digest that, I recommend you do some soul searching about what you really want to accomplish. You are in the best phase of your life to get your degree knocked out. Hanging out with your friends and drinking beer really can't be that bad of a lifestyle to deal with right now. Guess what, I hate studying too but it is part of life. You will be required to invest time learning whatever trade you ultimately choose. If you want be be in the military then do it the right way and get an education, you will have nearly every option open to you when you do choose to join. The goal here is to set up for success in the future, get the hard work out of the way now. If you want a taste of the military while in school, look into ROTC options or joining a guard unit. Most importantly, get better grades and get a degree.

I have been on nearly every side of the fence regarding the WOCS program. After a few years wearing a green suit, a few deployments under my belt, and talking with lots of people, here is what I determined about the military. You can lead a great life as a serviceman as long as you are never in the position of needing them. Make them need you, make yourself an asset to the organization.

You have one life to live, one shot at the prize. Do you want to start your journey by dropping out of college. You do seem like a smart guy, your ability to construct sentences and paragraphs are indicative of that. Replace your laziness with self-discipline (to finish something you started), and you will be a successful young man.

You're lucky I got to you before Ollie did. You're welcome.
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Thank you, I apprecaite that. I do realize that a college degree is absolutely essential in today's times, as everything regarding the job market is so competitive. It's not so much that I'm lazy (though I won't deny that isn't a part of it), it's more that I feel that my time, effort, and more importantly, money, would be better invested elsewhere; into something that would actually benefit directly to my goal. By that I mean that I could see a semester's worth of tuition being used more effectively towards getting a PPL and flight time, simply because I've been told so many times that any flight experience is a huge advantage, potentially more so than a degree. Obviously having both would be ideal, and I will admit that I'm somewhat impatient on getting the ball rolling. I'm only a semester or so away from an Associates degree, and I am going to continue classes next semester. I've heard that getting a packet together takes an immense amount of time, and I'm kind of figuring that by the time I get this next semester knocked out I can have my packet pretty polished up and ready to be sent off. I'm in no IMMEDIATE rush to do anything, I'm just trying to be a little proactive and get things together. The thing that really gets me about a degree though is there is nothing that interests me. Nothing, aside from flying, interests me enough to pursue a degree in it. I don't want to spend countless hours and thousands of dollars on something that, truthfully, I couldn't give about.

To get back to your original question as to why I chose the Army, to be honest I'm not quite sure. I feel it's the best for me, given my current situation. I don't want to fly fixed wing, I want to fly helicopters. And, based on what everybody has told me, the Army offers the best opportunities to do that. Don't get me wrong though, a part of my desire to fly for the Army IS because their flight program is, relatively of course, a bit less complicated then the rest to become a part of.

Again, I appreciate the feedback everybody! Positive or negative, it all helps.
 
Weston said:
Obviously having both would be ideal, and I will admit that I'm somewhat impatient on getting the ball rolling.
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I am also working on my WOFT packet. I will say this to you: impatience will only lead to aggravation and frustration. This process can be, and often is, a long process.

Weston said:
The thing that really gets me about a degree though is there is nothing that interests me. Nothing, aside from flying, interests me enough to pursue a degree in it. I don't want to spend countless hours and thousands of dollars on something that, truthfully, I couldn't give about.
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You're 19. Finish your damn degree and get your grades up. You want to do something aviation related? Riddle and (I believe) UND offer on-line classes and will probably accept many of your current credits. If you don't want to take the on-line route, find a school that has a program that you have a remote interest in. No use in getting a degree in physics if you like basket weaving. ROTC/Guard/Reserves are a great option. ROTC has scholarships and Guard and Reserve member have some sort of education assistance. In addition, you will experience the military life style. From there you can choose to extend or part ways and the end of your contract. My understanding is that the Guard and Reserves like to hire from within for WO's and O's. You need to be able to bring something to the military, not just a desire to fly. I have heard of candidates that are more than qualified being a non-select at the Army and Air Force boards.

Weston said:
To get back to your original question as to why I chose the Army, to be honest I'm not quite sure. I feel it's the best for me, given my current situation. I don't want to fly fixed wing, I want to fly helicopters. And, based on what everybody has told me, the Army offers the best opportunities to do that.
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It would probably be in your best interest to determine why you want to be in the military, and the Army, at all. Don't forget, Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corp fly helos, too.

Weston said:
Don't get me wrong though, a part of my desire to fly for the Army IS because their flight program is, relatively of course, a bit less complicated then the rest to become a part of.
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I will give you points for being honest here. However, I suggest you watch yourself with comments like this. Individuals that are far more experienced at butt chewing will tear you apart with comments like these.

Weston said:
Well, here we are, 19 years later, and my desire to fly is greater than ever, as well as my loathing of school. I've finally decided to act on it, and read everything I could find on the internet in respect to which route to go that would be the quickest/most efficient way to achieve my goal.
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This is not the reason that you join the military. I joined the Air Force in 2002 for reasons similar to this. I had grand ideas of awesome assignments, cool job, education, and retirement. I ended up in New Mexico yelling at pilots while they spun around a room at 50 mph. I received my associates after busting my ass taking four hour classes at the end of my duty day. Ask my wife about her time. She worked on the line. I decided to get out to finish my degree. Do I regret it? No. I matured very quickly. I learned a lot from that short stint. What would I do different? I would have finished my degree and gone ROTC and commissioned.

Ultimately, it is up to you on what you want and will pursue. Those on this board cannot make you do anything. Heed the advice of those here and do some research, then make your decision.

For those of you with more experience, if I am out of line or way off the mark, please let me know.
 
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