Army National Guard Pilot

Flyinhigh728

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, I have a question about the Army National Guard. I'm very familiar with the WOFT process as I started the process a few years ago. I'm currently a commercial hell pilot working on my CFI. From what I've been able to gather, to fly in the national guard you must first enlist and then apply for Flight School later on. Is this correct? Is there any way to go into the National Guard and go directly to WOCS and then flight school? Thanks.
 
Hey guys, I have a question about the Army National Guard. I'm very familiar with the WOFT process as I started the process a few years ago. I'm currently a commercial hell pilot working on my CFI. From what I've been able to gather, to fly in the national guard you must first enlist and then apply for Flight School later on. Is this correct? Is there any way to go into the National Guard and go directly to WOCS and then flight school? Thanks.

I personally haven't heard of guys getting a WOCS slot from off the street inthe ArNG units near me here; all the guys that went WOCS were all prior enlisted from the units or from other ArNG units. For two reasons: 1. Because it's competitive enough. And 2. Because the ArNG can choose this way.
 
MikeD said:
I personally haven't heard of guys getting a WOCS slot from off the street inthe ArNG units near me here; all the guys that went WOCS were all prior enlisted from the units or from other ArNG units. For two reasons: 1. Because it's competitive enough. And 2. Because the ArNG can choose this way.

Do the guard aviation officer positions go through WOFT or is it more like AF UPT. It's very vague online and my recruiter has very little experience with aviation. Is an aviation officer required to submit an application like others do for WOFT.
 
Do the guard aviation officer positions go through WOFT or is it more like AF UPT. It's very vague online and my recruiter has very little experience with aviation. Is an aviation officer required to submit an application like others do for WOFT.

If you are talking commissioned RLO officers (yeah I know, CW2+ are commissioned), they go through a normal commissioning process. Most of the ones I ran into were ROTC, but I ran into some that were OCS. Once you are commissioned you go to flight school along side people who have graduated from WOCS.
The process of being selected is much like Air Guard. Kind of a "rush" process where they see if they like you. If they do they will send you to flight school and/or basic training/OCS if needed. In the Army prior to going to WOCS or OCS you must go to basic training along with all the other enlisted.
Many of those selected are part of the ROTC SMP (simultaneous membership program). This is where you are in ROTC but also a member of the National Guard and drill with a unit one weekend a month. I did this with an infantry unit, but when I was a pilot in the Guard we had cadets drill with our units. They obviously did staff stuff.

Really your best bet is to contact a specific unit and talk to their recruiter. They will know more than the recruiter at the local shopping mall who rarely deals with this.
 
Figure out who the warrant officer recruiter/command warrant officer is for your state and let them know you are interested. It's rare that you can go street to seat in the guard but not impossible. You may have a better chance because you already have some helicopter experience and the big reluctance against street to seat is them spending a large chunk of the flight school budget on someone they can't fully vet. What state are you looking at?
 
Figure out who the warrant officer recruiter/command warrant officer is for your state and let them know you are interested. It's rare that you can go street to seat in the guard but not impossible. You may have a better chance because you already have some helicopter experience and the big reluctance against street to seat is them spending a large chunk of the flight school budget on someone they can't fully vet. What state are you looking at?

Thanks, I will definitely look into it. I'm not exactly sure at the moment. I live in Southeastern PA right now but am also close to Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey. So I have quite a few options. I will try to find someone to talk to in the specific unit that I am interested in.
 
Thanks, I will definitely look into it. I'm not exactly sure at the moment. I live in Southeastern PA right now but am also close to Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey. So I have quite a few options. I will try to find someone to talk to in the specific unit that I am interested in.
I'm not sure what airframe you want to fly, but we have a MEDEVAC detachment in DC as well that's just standing up.
 
You can expect that almost every unit will require your membership for at least one year (but realistically it could be 2-3) before they will send you to flight school. Flight slots are limited and the Commanders want to know that you are committed to the unit and to the area (where you live, your attendance record, work performance, participation, etc. in the unit are all considered). Your enlistment in the unit will most likely be the first step. I'm not stating that "street-to-seat" is impossible, but it is highly improbable. Commanders will send unit members that have proven themselves...this helps them try to manage the longevity of service of the soldier.

Once you figure out where you want to settle (as far as which unit/where you want to join), you can begin your selection process. Each State has Officer Selection personnel. Call the State Headquarters and ask for the State Aviation Officer's office; these people will be able to get you in contact with the correct person. Also contacting the actual Unit's Administrative Officer is a great way to get a feel for the unit and also your chances for flight school. Set up an appointment and let him/her tell you about the unit, ask your questions, and see what you think. They will shoot you straight as far as your chances and timeframe for WOFT. One thing that will hurt you is to contact EVERY State you mentioned and go through the process I've described here......................units, and State Aviation Officers talk.....if they think your "shopping for a great deal", it shows lack of unit/State commitment and might hurt your overall chances.

If you decide to move forward, be selective about your enlistment, pick a skill that will augment your position as a pilot (i.e. mechanic, crew chief, avionics tech, etc). These jobs (and others) will provide you an excellent base of understanding of the military way of helicopter operations AND, most importantly, it will put you in close proximity to the unit's pilots/crews. THESE are the people that have input and influence on the Commanders with regards to flight slot selection.

Also, I don't know you or your personality so don't take offense; I make this as a general advise statement..................don't walk in the door with a puffed out chest about your ratings and flight time and "all of your experience".
Remember the line from MIB: "As of now, your experience mean exactly Dick!" Actually the Army (not sure of the other branches of the service) prefer NO prior experience. Prior experience equates to bad habits that must now be broken and untrained. It has been time-proven that prior experience does not guarantee successful completion of Army Flight Training and, often, becomes a liability.

If interested, you have a much better chance of going from "street to seat" by joining the Active Army.
 
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Thanks for the very detailed response @dustoff17 . That really helps and I figured that was the case with the National Guard. I will certainly look into active duty again. I've just been reading that the Military cuts are really effecting Aviation and the WOFT selection rate as well.

Also, I'm the first person to admit that my experience is very limited and by no means am I showing it off. I was just putting that in there because I thought it might be good for guard units to see I have the dedication. Thanks again!
 
Not taking a shot at you here as far as your "showing off", it's just that I've seen it in the past and know that it doesn't carry very far.

Good luck to you as you pursue this venture. If you have any more questions, just jump in here and, as a group, we'll try to help...
 
While I would not necessarily play up flight experience the idea that it hurts in the selection process or results in habits that must be "untrained" is false.
Having taught at Ft Rucker I do not know of any students who had problems due to prior civilian experience and I would throw this idea into the urban legend pile. If there were issues it had to do with being taught something improperly or getting lazy. As an example, poor radio communication at a non-towered airport. But heck, that seems to be an Army wide issue ("Any traffic please advise.") Normally the students I had with prior experience actually knew what the FAR/AIM was.
Also standards are standards. The FAAs PTS pretty much mirrors the standards in the Army's ATMs. +-100' is +-100' be it in a Schweitzer or a or a TH-67.
Also having been in the Guard I never once heard of a pilot having issues in selection due to prior aviation experience. The unit looked at the total person and prior flight experience could be a good thing when they looked at the total package.
As a war story I spent a few weeks with my nephew after after he finished the initial civilian flight screening for Navy/Marine flight school teaching him tail wheel and basic aerobatics in my Super D. I must not have hurt him too much- he is now an F/A-18 pilot.
 
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I'm on the selection board for the Connecticut Guard. I'll post the announcement next time we hold a board. Probably will be after the new year.

If you ever want to tour the facility or talk to pilots or meet with the State Aviation Officer, just let me know.
 
My only question is why you'd want to be in the Army or anything related to Big Green......

Big Blue for that matter too, to be fair.
 
While I would not necessarily play up flight experience the idea that it hurts in the selection process or results in habits that must be "untrained" is false.
Having taught at Ft Rucker I do not know of any students who had problems due to prior civilian experience and I would throw this idea into the urban legend pile. If there were issues it had to do with being taught something improperly or getting lazy. As an example, poor radio communication at a non-towered airport. But heck, that seems to be an Army wide issue ("Any traffic please advise.") Normally the students I had with prior experience actually knew what the FAR/AIM was.
Also standards are standards. The FAAs PTS pretty much mirrors the standards in the Army's ATMs. +-100' is +-100' be it in a Schweitzer or a or a TH-67.
Also having been in the Guard I never once heard of a pilot having issues in selection due to prior aviation experience. The unit looked at the total person and prior flight experience could be a good thing when they looked at the total package.
As a war story I spent a few weeks with my nephew after after he finished the initial civilian flight screening for Navy/Marine flight school teaching him tail wheel and basic aerobatics in my Super D. I must not have hurt him too much- he is now an F/A-18 pilot.
Wow,...........@Flyinhigh728, first allow me to state that this: Mine is not a hard and fast rule nor is it a policy of the Army AND, most importantly, your experience and mileage may vary.

So......let me re-state my earlier post and thoughts in order to clarify.....

Urban legend or not, It has been my PERSONAL experience that SOME prior experience has hindered SOME candidates in Army flight training.
There are many, many instances of this and are well documented in flight training records…here are a couple worthy of mentioning: As a former instructor as well (and former SP), my PERSONAL experience is that of one kid (yes, I'm old so I can write that) that held a Comm/Inst and flew a Hughes 300 had issues in primary flight training. He had a LOT of hours and experience for someone wanting to start from ground zero in the Army. His tendency was to manually manipulate the throttle. Continually wanted to roll it off when he wanted to descend, especially as he landed. His was NOT a knowledge problem NOR was it a lack of understanding of helicopters in general; his was a training and, most especially, a muscle memory issue. Another was a Candidate that was fixed-wing rated; he operated out of a small grass strip "back home". His "normal" approach for the majority of his flying was to put the airplane into a hard slip when on short final. This must be great for a small plane back home, not so great in a small under-powered helicopter. Again, his was a prior training and muscle memory issue but it was manageable. BOTH of these guys graduated, however, BOTH seriously struggled as they had to overcome bad habits (my words, not the Army's). What they learned is what they did.....primacy. Any good instructor will be able to pick up these primacy issues and re-train as necessary but it is not accurate to state that these issues don't occur. I would venture a guess that almost every prior-experience candidate has at least one mannerism that had to be re-thought and/or re-learned with regards to their flying. I am not and was not stating that prior experience eliminates you from selection, just that you will face different battles than someone with no experience.

When it comes to aerodynamics, FAR/AIM, communications, etc, you will be leaps and bounds above others. However, I caution you to use your knowledge and experience as a foundation for learning and not as a substitute for what the Army (or anyone else for that matter) may want to teach you. Don’t flush your experience or knowledge….build on it.

This reminds me of a joke that goes like this:
Q: How do you know when a pilot arrives at your party?
A: Don’t worry, he’ll tell you!

What I was trying (and apparently failed) to convey was a suggestion of attitude rather than to state that since you’re already qualified, you don’t have a chance. That was not and is not my intention.
As you go through the selection process and flight training (if that’s what you decide to do), use your knowledge and experience as a “feather in your cap” not as a medal on your chest. There is a fine line between and knowledgeable/self-confident pilot and an arrogant/self-righteous one…..be the former. My guess is that the show off types don’t make it very far in the interview process at the majors and that there are very few Airline Captains that want to listen to a new FO tell about “all of his experience at the regionals”.

From my PERSONAL experience both as one that made recommendations and held a seat on the selection board, the confident-not-arrogant applicants won over every time.
I didn’t read into your post that this is your attitude or nature, I was just letting you know that I have been witness to these type of prior-experience applicants and I am recommending to you that you not take the same path as others that I have PERSONALLY seen.
 
Wow,...........@Flyinhigh728, first allow me to state that this: Mine is not a hard and fast rule nor is it a policy of the Army AND, most importantly, your experience and mileage may vary.

So......let me re-state my earlier post and thoughts in order to clarify.....

Urban legend or not, It has been my PERSONAL experience that SOME prior experience has hindered SOME candidates in Army flight training.
There are many, many instances of this and are well documented in flight training records…here are a couple worthy of mentioning: As a former instructor as well (and former SP), my PERSONAL experience is that of one kid (yes, I'm old so I can write that) that held a Comm/Inst and flew a Hughes 300 had issues in primary flight training. He had a LOT of hours and experience for someone wanting to start from ground zero in the Army. His tendency was to manually manipulate the throttle. Continually wanted to roll it off when he wanted to descend, especially as he landed. His was NOT a knowledge problem NOR was it a lack of understanding of helicopters in general; his was a training and, most especially, a muscle memory issue. Another was a Candidate that was fixed-wing rated; he operated out of a small grass strip "back home". His "normal" approach for the majority of his flying was to put the airplane into a hard slip when on short final. This must be great for a small plane back home, not so great in a small under-powered helicopter. Again, his was a prior training and muscle memory issue but it was manageable. BOTH of these guys graduated, however, BOTH seriously struggled as they had to overcome bad habits (my words, not the Army's). What they learned is what they did.....primacy. Any good instructor will be able to pick up these primacy issues and re-train as necessary but it is not accurate to state that these issues don't occur. I would venture a guess that almost every prior-experience candidate has at least one mannerism that had to be re-thought and/or re-learned with regards to their flying. I am not and was not stating that prior experience eliminates you from selection, just that you will face different battles than someone with no experience.

When it comes to aerodynamics, FAR/AIM, communications, etc, you will be leaps and bounds above others. However, I caution you to use your knowledge and experience as a foundation for learning and not as a substitute for what the Army (or anyone else for that matter) may want to teach you. Don’t flush your experience or knowledge….build on it.

This reminds me of a joke that goes like this:
Q: How do you know when a pilot arrives at your party?
A: Don’t worry, he’ll tell you!

What I was trying (and apparently failed) to convey was a suggestion of attitude rather than to state that since you’re already qualified, you don’t have a chance. That was not and is not my intention.
As you go through the selection process and flight training (if that’s what you decide to do), use your knowledge and experience as a “feather in your cap” not as a medal on your chest. There is a fine line between and knowledgeable/self-confident pilot and an arrogant/self-righteous one…..be the former. My guess is that the show off types don’t make it very far in the interview process at the majors and that there are very few Airline Captains that want to listen to a new FO tell about “all of his experience at the regionals”.

From my PERSONAL experience both as one that made recommendations and held a seat on the selection board, the confident-not-arrogant applicants won over every time.
I didn’t read into your post that this is your attitude or nature, I was just letting you know that I have been witness to these type of prior-experience applicants and I am recommending to you that you not take the same path as others that I have PERSONALLY seen.

Oh no!!! I first learned in a TH-55... oh wait. I did not have any issues trying to manipulate the throttle in a UH-1 or OH-58.
I knew how to slip an airplane into a grass strip- oh wait. I also knew how to land an airplane appropriately and applied the same technique to helicopters but the knowledge of how to slip also helped in th RW world when I needed to bleed off energy quickly.

I taught at Rucker for years and never heard of such a thing. If that were the case ERAU and UND students would have a reputation for doing poorly- sorry Charlie. They don't and the military does not seem to mind "hiring" them.

Confident, non-arrogant applies to all applicants, be they someone with civilian flight time or a prior service special operator. It applies not just to military flight training, but flight training anywhere. The first thing I tell a CFI when I get checked out in an airplane is that I am just another schmuck trying to kill him.
 
BTW. Having taught at Rucker and in line units I don't recall the part of the training records that listed a pilots civilian flying experience.
 
Oh no!!! I first learned in a TH-55... oh wait. I did not have any issues trying to manipulate the throttle in a UH-1 or OH-58.
I knew how to slip an airplane into a grass strip- oh wait. I also knew how to land an airplane appropriately and applied the same technique to helicopters but the knowledge of how to slip also helped in th RW world when I needed to bleed off energy quickly.
Well then you must not be either one of the student pilots to whom I refer........

I taught at Rucker for years and never heard of such a thing.......
And now you have....see? This day has not been a total loss, you learned something new today....
As have I.....

BTW. Having taught at Rucker and in line units I don't recall the part of the training records that listed a pilots civilian flying experience.
Wow, again! DA Form 759, nuff said............
 
DA Form 759, Section B, blocks C. and E. ;)
Funny- I thought the 759 was Individual Flight Records and the training record was the 7120 series. Has that changed? If not where is that information on the 7122?
As an IP at Rucker I never saw a students 759. Heck, even in line units that was in operations not standards so I never saw them.
 
Well then you must not be either one of the student pilots to whom I refer........


And now you have....see? This day has not been a total loss, you learned something new today....
As have I.....


Wow, again! DA Form 759, nuff said............

You claim to be an SP but you don't know the difference between a 759 "Individual Flight Records" which tracks flight time and the 7122 Crew Member Training Record? Unless things have changed the 759 stayed in Operations while the 7122 was standards.

The Army used the TH-55 for years and trained thousands of pilots in it who then went on to the UH-1 and OH-58. I never heard of a pilot having this issue, so it probably had less to do with a pilot having prior flight training than the pilot himself.
 
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