Are the benefits of a CTI school worth it for me?

ViperJoe

ViperJoe

New Member
Hey guys, long-time lurker here. I applied to PUBNAT 1 way back in Jan. ’08 and went off to OKC for basics and terminal training in Apr. ’09. Unfortunately I didn’t pass my PV at the end. All three of my instructors were shocked to find out I failed. One even called my facility to tell them what he thought of me and how valuable I’d be. My facility supervisor still wanted me even though I failed and he tried to work it out with the FAA but I guess they just wouldn’t have it. They have, however, said they’d pick me up again if I reapply.

Luckily PUBNAT 8 opened up just a week after I got back from OKC. But…. now I’m really starting to notice that the application process this time is at a standstill compared to last time. I’m definitely willing to wait for this job, I’m only 25. And what I experienced at OKC assured me that this IS what I want to do in life!

Recently my parents have generously offered to pay for me to go to a CTI school. What I’d really like to know is if this would benefit me at all? Or enough to justify them spending the extra money and me spending the time? Is there a chance that even though my application is already in for PUBNAT 8 that they may decide to stop hiring from the general public? I know that having a CTI degree definitely couldn’t hurt, but would it be noticeably beneficial in my situation? I’m thinking that the CTI route wouldn’t have a speed advantage because it takes 2 years of full-time schooling, am I right?

ANY opinions would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!
 
My two cents... if you plan on trying it again, then you need to go CTI. All hiring is at a standstill at the moment, but you're right, OTS rates keeps getting worse and signs are pointing to it no longer being a viable option. So, yeah, if you're trying to do it again, that's the right idea.

But were it me, I'd be asking myself if I was sure that it's worth my time. Nothing you pick up in a CTI program will teach you anything that'll help with a PV (or live traffic). CTI and OTS success rates are about identical, because as you've found and as the few actual controllers who wander through keep saying, controlling's a skill you either have or you don't. Even if you fast track your way through a one year CTI program, add in the time it'll take just to go to the Academy (where you'll be retaking the same exact classes) and you're looking at two years, just to have that one shot again. If you've found that it's not your forte already, going for it again seems pretty risky.

There are similar career options, FYI. You could go for a dispatch license. The work is similar, it pays well once you've been at it for a few years, and you'd have an edge with what you learned at the Academy. Something to think about.

Anyway, like I said, just my two cents, coming from someone who hasn't been there. Take it as you will.
 
Thanks that’s just what I was looking for, anybody’s two cents.

Could you explain more about the dispatch license? Or provide a link about getting one? That might be something I’d like to pursue.

I’ve certainly done a lot of thinking since failing out at the academy. I was crushed when I failed, I loved every minute of it. No other job has seemed “right” for me. Being so new to me of course nothing came easy though. But nobody ever said it was supposed to be. It was challenging and enjoyable; two must haves for my dream job.

So why’d I fail the PV if I worked my hardest and kept my eye on the prize?? Well, unfortunately I can’t discuss details. But I have no doubt in my mind though that if I get a second chance I’d have no trouble passing.
 
ViperJoe said:
Could you explain more about the dispatch license? Or provide a link about getting one? That might be something I’d like to pursue.
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Dispatch is kind of like air traffic control within the airline. They manage the flow of company traffic, arrange which planes go where, work with routes, keep tabs on weather, run the numbers... you get where I'm going. When it comes to the larger airlines, systems ops can actually get pretty big, but even small companies will hire dispatchers. As with the rest of the industry, hiring is more difficult at the time, but if you're willing to be flexible with where you live that'll help. Most airline dispatch positions are based out of the airline's main city; so Seattle for Alaska, Dallas for American and Southwest, New York for JetBlue, and so on.

Training isn't terribly expensive or time consuming. I didn't find anywhere that went over $10,000 or six months for the license. Many programs are arranged where you can do parts of it via the internet, although you still have to go to the school for a week or two.

If I had a good link to give you I would, but I don't have any off the top of my head (or bookmarks). See what you can find on Google. Since you live in Auburn, you may want to check with that aviation college at Auburn Muni to see if they have any recommendations. Speaking of which, I'm right up the road here in Renton -- just moved up a couple weeks ago. Lemme know if you want to shoot the breeze sometime (or know of any short term work for a guy waiting on his class date).
 
Go to Green Rive Community college in Seattle Washington. You will walk out with a CTI degree and the certifications to be an airline dispatcher. Every cti student is trained to be a dispacher as well. And the school is really cheap, even for out-of-state students
 
bippoptl said:
Go to Green Rive Community college in Seattle Washington. You will walk out with a CTI degree and the certifications to be an airline dispatcher. Every cti student is trained to be a dispacher as well. And the school is really cheap, even for out-of-state students
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Dispatch license too? That's a pretty sweet gig. Who knows, they keep me waiting long enough, I may just end up doing it to pass the time. Besides, it'll give me something to fall back on when I fall asleep on the job-- uh, I mean, get preoccupied checking the schedule on my laptop.
 
I feel like I should know more about the position of “dispatcher” since I went to the academy and all but I don’t think it’s something we really covered. Could you please give me a brief explanation of what they do? Is the full term “airline dispatcher” if I wanted to Google it?

If I graduated from Green River’s program is this a job I can go straight into without further training? Is the pay comparable to ATC? (I’m sure it’s lower). Is it a government job? Do you have similar job security? Is it a 24-hour, fast-paced job like ATC? Are you just in a window-less room talking to aircraft on the radio? (Not saying that’s a bad thing!). Positives/Negatives??

Thanks!!!
 
ViperJoe said:
If I graduated from Green River’s program is this a job I can go straight into without further training? Is the pay comparable to ATC? (I’m sure it’s lower). Is it a government job? Do you have similar job security? Is it a 24-hour, fast-paced job like ATC? Are you just in a window-less room talking to aircraft on the radio? (Not saying that’s a bad thing!). Positives/Negatives??
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I'm not entirely qualified to answer these, but that's never stopped me before. Here's my best shot.

1. No, you need an actual dispatch license. You'd know if you had one. You have to test for it.
2. Err... I'm not sure, honestly. I know that people who've done it for a while can hit six figures.
3. No, you're employed by an air carrier.
4. Not in the sense that the FAA almost never lays off controllers, unless they take on Ronald Reagan. Certainly safer than being a pilot. It's pretty stable.
5. For any major or regional airline, yeah, it's 24 hours. I suppose some smaller air taxi operations wouldn't be.
6. Depends on what the dispatch office's architect felt like putting in. You're not staring at a radar screen like in a TRACON or Center, if that's what you're picturing. Well, I guess you get weather radar.

There's a dispatcher forum right here on JC, btw.
 
ViperJoe said:
I feel like I should know more about the position of “dispatcher” since I went to the academy and all but I don’t think it’s something we really covered. Could you please give me a brief explanation of what they do? Is the full term “airline dispatcher” if I wanted to Google it?

If I graduated from Green River’s program is this a job I can go straight into without further training? Is the pay comparable to ATC? (I’m sure it’s lower). Is it a government job? Do you have similar job security? Is it a 24-hour, fast-paced job like ATC? Are you just in a window-less room talking to aircraft on the radio? (Not saying that’s a bad thing!). Positives/Negatives??

Thanks!!!
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I've been dispatching since 2005. You are basically a flight planner. You have a certain amount of flights to plan on each shift and you plan their route, fuel load, and altitiude based on weather, economics, and passenger comfort. Once the flight is in the air you monitor its progress and alert the crew of any issues while enroute via acars (text messages to airplanes). Its a sweet job, but there are a few drawbacks. It is in most cases a 24/7 job, which as a low man on the todem pole usually means third shift...for a while. Like others have replied, you work for an airline or company which these days is anything but stable and not to mention hard to find openings these days. For example JetBlue was hiring a dispatcher a few weeks ago, I applied and never heard a word. I have more than the experience req'd and I have flight hours (which was stated as a plus). I also had three people that I know there fill out the referral form for me. Still heard nothing. The position was filled by a furloughed dispatcher from AA with over twenty years of experience. How many can compete with that??? As far as where you work it depends on the company. Some are located at the hub airport right on site, but others are in a random building somewhere. Continental has a sweet set up, they are in a high rise in downtown Houston on the 16th floor. I know because thats the job I turned down once I had my TOL :banghead:. Don't I feel dumb. As far as pay, its not really close to atc. You start at a regional carrier at about 14 to 16 dollars an hour. Most are union positions so the pay does go up pretty well, however most of even the majors dont top 6 figures anymore. There are a few out there that pay very well, like southwest. You start at 37k a year and then its a 10 year scale where you top out at 95k i think. Those are awesome raises! But keep in mind that when Southwest puts up an opening (once every blue moon) that thousands will apply. Seriously, thousands. On a lighter note being a dispatcher does have one awesome benefit. If your company is CASS you can jumpseat on almost any carrier worldwide for free. (international you just pay taxes, I flew business class to Ireland and back for 19 dollars) That perk is hard to beat, but it only benefits you. No family or friends. Any other questions feel free to ask.
 
If you believe the FAA's data, they will still be hiring for the next 6-7 years. I have a feeling once some of this log-jam clears, hiring will resume, albeit nowhere near the rate that it did in '08 and early to mid '09.

That said, I wouldn't hinge my entire future on that. If it is something you really want to do, I'd take up your parent's offer and go CTI. By the time you get out of school you'd probably be able to land another job with the agency.
 
DeltaKilo... where'd you hear about the AA guy? Someone else here on JC mentioned that they heard it was filled internally, but it was one of those "heard it from my mother's friend's dentist" things...

Thanks the good post, btw.
 
Rosstafari said:
DeltaKilo... where'd you hear about the AA guy? Someone else here on JC mentioned that they heard it was filled internally, but it was one of those "heard it from my mother's friend's dentist" things...

Thanks the good post, btw.
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A friend of mine that I used to work with now works in jetblues SOC, he went in to talk to the chief dispatcher about my app and then was told the position was already filled before it was even opened. Just legally they had to post it. The guy was oringally displaced from twa, then over to aa or something like that.
 
Yeah thanks DeltaKilo and others for the great replies!!

Green River Community College is 40mins from where I live so I visited today. It turns out the Dispatcher degree is mostly separate from the ATC degree and they don't do a fast-track program like many others schools. If I wanted both it would probably be 2 years of schooling. And yeah, it's great that you talked about dispatcher hiring rates because that's something I've really been wondering about. Does NOT sound good though. However, that's the deal most everywhere so I won't let that turn me away.

So, if I go the CTI route and graduate next spring ONLY THEN can a put in a new application with the FAA. Does anybody know if these are put out frequently like PUBNATs (or always available)? And is there still a chance that then I'd have to wait 1-2 years AFTER applying for this just like PUBNATS? Or do they usually take on CTI students much sooner after applying?
 
ViperJoe said:
Green River Community College is 40mins from where I live so I visited today. It turns out the Dispatcher degree is mostly separate from the ATC degree and they don't do a fast-track program like many others schools. If I wanted both it would probably be 2 years of schooling.
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Whaaaaat? Just today I was across the street from Green River's extension down in Kent City Center. Out of curiosity, I went in and grabbed their pamphlet on aviation programs. Right here on the front: "Dispatch Fast Track".

Also, on the inside, it lists a bunch of local aviation facilities, implying that if you get a CTI you just walk over to SeaTac or McChord and ask if they're hiring or something. Right.

So, if I go the CTI route and graduate next spring ONLY THEN can a put in a new application with the FAA. Does anybody know if these are put out frequently like PUBNATs (or always available)?
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Yes, CTI applications are kind of a rolling admission... they're generally always open, and will be gathered together on a quarterly basis for consideration at panels. That can all be subject to other demands, of course, but that's more or less how it works.

And is there still a chance that then I'd have to wait 1-2 years AFTER applying for this just like PUBNATS? Or do they usually take on CTI students much sooner after applying?
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CTI wait tends to be less than OTS, especially since it skips the AT-SAT (done in school) and geo prefs (done at the time of application). It's hard to predict exactly how long things will actually take, since it depends on frequently-changing hiring needs. Some CTI's aren't picked up their first round, either, but that's another advantage of CTI -- you just go on to the next one. OTS applicants had to keep applying to subsequent PUBNATs.
 
Oh ok, I was at their main Auburn facility. And I mostly got my answers from talking to a couple students because the primary instructors were all busy. So the validity now sounds questionable.

I'm glad to hear that there is a more open admission process and that the wait time tends to be less.
 
Also, on the inside, it lists a bunch of local aviation facilities, implying that if you get a CTI you just walk over to SeaTac or McChord and ask if they're hiring or something. Right.
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Wait, are there more dispatch opportunities here in the Pacific Northwest than just Alaska Airlines??

I've looked into train dispatching too since it seems similar but haven't found any jobs in WA.
 
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