Approach Clearance?
- Thread starter mshunter
- Start date
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
You aren't cleared for the full procedure?
Why not just exactly as stated? Direct on FMS to MEGPE, cross it at 3,000 and make sure you can do 1,800 feet down in 6 miles for LABIY. At MEGPE, start down out of 3,000.
Why not just exactly as stated? Direct on FMS to MEGPE, cross it at 3,000 and make sure you can do 1,800 feet down in 6 miles for LABIY. At MEGPE, start down out of 3,000.
Jordan93
Well-Known Member
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Other way around. Unless cleared for a straight in approach you are required to do the full procedure... unless it says NoPt of course.
Granted, I *think* the .65 says something different than the FARs but it's been a while since I've been down that rabbit hole.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Have gotten RNAV approaches just that way, and I've done just that. Direct to fix, cross fix at assigned altitude, and start down. Considering the traffic behind us coming into the approach as well, I'd have a hard time seeing a full procedure turn. Not saying you're wrong, but doing a circle there would most likely surprise the controller.
To be honest the only time I recall full procedure turn was at the regional, going to uncontrolled airports like SCE (UNV), which is now towered. But back then, Ny approach would sometimes be lazy and have us do the full turn. Explicity, if I recall. We requested vectors, they said negative and "expect full approach"
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
The key here is the arrow. Because he is coming to MEGPE at less than a 90 degree intercept no PT is required or expected. A PT allows you to be cleared direct at greater than a 90 degree intercept where you fly the PT.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Ahem, but KUNV is NY CENTER, not Approach =)
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
The 90 degree thing is the difference between FAR/AIM and the .65 I think. There's no reference to that on our end of things. The only place it might apply is with a TAA type approach.
flyingbum
Needz Re-Edjamacayshun
Lighten up Francis!
https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/docs/cb/cb_363.pdf
The note
to section 5-4-9-a adds: “If the pilot is uncertain whether the
ATC clearance intends for a procedure turn to be conducted or to allow
for a straight-in approach, the pilot shall immediately request
clarification from ATC (14 CFR Section 91.123).
Cory Trevor
Well-Known Member
Seems to get brought up a lot. From what I've learned it would be to make the procedure turn then shoot the approach. Logically that doesn't make sense given where you're coming from and I'm sure ATC just wants you straight in. If they don't make it clear by saying straight in, just ask
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Maybe I'm missing something but there is not a published procedure turn anywhere on the approach plate.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Only 10 yrs in 121 operations (not a whole lot) but I've never had any procedure turn on a relatively straight in, as in this case. The only procedure turn approaches I did were at the regional to smaller airports, and it was explicitly cleared as such for the full approach, and we were coming from the opposite direction where it was obvious a PT was necessary. And when we did do a PT, it was fairly obvious from the instructions of ATC.
In this case, you are almost direct to the fix anyway. Cleared direct to the fix, maintain 3,000 to that fix, and cleared for the approach.
In this case, you are almost direct to the fix anyway. Cleared direct to the fix, maintain 3,000 to that fix, and cleared for the approach.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
And this, right here, is why the MPL is a terrible idea.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Not the first attack on me being a 250 hr pilot. Oh well, just rubs right off my back.
You are free to fly that approach whichever way you want.
Cassss me ousssside, how bow dahhh
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Clarify with ATC.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
And it says it right there, you're not expected to do a PT if one of 3 conditions, one of which is:
"When ATC provides a radar vector to the Final approach course "
Which is exactly what I implied with the regional airline approach into SCE (UNV) in which we were told to expect a full approach for Rwy 24. I asked for radar vectors and he wasn't able (New York center, not approach, good catch). We were coming in from ppposite direction, and it was fairly obvious from the setup and lack of radar vectors to final that we would be doing a PT, and the controller was expecting it too.
"When ATC provides a radar vector to the Final approach course "
Which is exactly what I implied with the regional airline approach into SCE (UNV) in which we were told to expect a full approach for Rwy 24. I asked for radar vectors and he wasn't able (New York center, not approach, good catch). We were coming in from ppposite direction, and it was fairly obvious from the setup and lack of radar vectors to final that we would be doing a PT, and the controller was expecting it too.