Any DPE's on the site?

Pilotforhire587

Pilotforhire587

Lycra Man
If anyone is a DPE on here I would appreciate the help with this.

When I complete upgrade training and get my PIC type for the Dash and my ATP both will have the restriction, "circling approaches VMC only." I know that unless I want to pay for an hour in the sim to go do a circling approach there is nothing I can do about the restriction on the type but if after the checkride, I went up in a dutchess with a DPE and shot a circling approach or a straight in approach circle to land, if I could get the restriction removed. Thanks in advance guys!
 
There are a couple DPE's here. I don't recall who they are, though

Something in the deep recesses of my memory makes me want to say that you can't do a legal circling aproach in a sim. Could be wrong about that. Also pretty sure that to get the restriction removed, you have to demonstrate it in the actual airplane in the same type as the restriction is for- not just any airplane
 
It's simply because your airline doesn't train, or test the maneuver. Has nothing to do with the sim etc. Doing the circle in another plane will get the atp restriction removed, but the Dash restriction on the type will still apply. Honestly, paying for the sim "may" be cheaper.. Usually you will have to pay the DPE an exam fee, and rent the airplane / get checked out if needed... Another reason to do it in the sim, if you ever go somewhere else that wants the type, like dynacorp etc, they won't like the restriction to your atp/type.
 
I have always been perplexed by that restriction. Anyone who circles to land is in VMC to begin with. If you aren't you are doing it wrong!
 
I asked the CommutAirs POI the other day when he rode along in the jumpseat with me, he said the restriction meant you must have 3sm and 1000' cieling, something I already knew but to me thats VFR not VMC. oh well.


Mike Truck is right, there are two different restrictions, one is on the DCH8 Type, the other is on my actual ATP. I am not gonna rent an examiner sim to get it off the typ but I don't mind paying $200 for an hour in a dutchess to get it of of my ATP. I know an examiner who will do that along with my SELATP for the same price, he is out of town right now though so I can't get in touch with him to ask about getting the restriction off the ATP cert itself
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
I asked the CommutAirs POI the other day when he rode along in the jumpseat with me, he said the restriction meant you must have 3sm and 1000' cieling, something I already knew but to me thats VFR not VMC. oh well.


Mike Truck is right, there are two different restrictions, one is on the DCH8 Type, the other is on my actual ATP. I am not gonna rent an examiner sim to get it off the typ but I don't mind paying $200 for an hour in a dutchess to get it of of my ATP. I know an examiner who will do that along with my SELATP for the same price, he is out of town right now though so I can't get in touch with him to ask about getting the restriction off the ATP cert itself
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If you do a check ride or pc with an apd, they can issue a new 8710 or whatever it it's these days without the restriction... Usually it means you pay for 10 min of sim time... (or drinks that night) and do out at the end of a pc/pt... At least that might be how I would go about getting one removed.

as far as the circle being completed in vmc, if you use an approach procedure to get below the weather, it is a circling procedure unless vfr weather mins. exist. You can't break out at 800 ft, and declare it not a circle just because you are 200 feet above the circle mda. Airlines like commute air require 3/1..because sometimes the vfr requirements for the airspace you are operating in would allow you to sidestep the intent of the restriction. (class b and class g, more specifically)

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
Erik1010 said:
How can you circle to land in IMC?
Do you have an example?
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According to the AIM, IMC are "Meteorological conditions expressed in terms of visibility, distance from cloud, and ceiling less than the minima specified for visual meteorological conditions" (91.155 requirements). So IMC doesn't mean "in the clouds", it means "less than VFR weather minimums". You can certainly circle in less than VFR weather mins--most circling approaches have minimum visibilities below all but class G mins, and MDA's can get you below a ceiling that may be less than 1000'. I've definitely circled in IMC, and I bet that most others who fly IFR regularly have as well.

This discussion relates to the common restriction on types for airline pilots that specify "[Type] CIRC. APCH.-VMC ONLY". It means that circle-to-land maneuvers can only be flown in weather conditions greater than those required by VFR. As others have said, I think it's a sim thing. At my former employer we needed VFR minimums on the jet, but I think the turboprop could do a true circle.
 
I believe the CTL mnvr can be accomplished only on simulators of certain levels. I don't know my sim alphabet. Part of my initial and recurrent rides have to occur in a plane based on the sims limitation to allow circling approaches.

I am under there impression the high level sims allowed the entire checkride to occur in the sun but maybe only with the CTL restriction.
 
To the OP seems like a mute point. If your company wants you to do circling approaches they would type you to do so. If your next gig wants you to circle they'll pay for the training.

I can understand your pain though, to finally get your ATP but with restrictions, kind of sucks.
 
The circle to land in VMC only is a safety restriction that almost all airlines and many charters have put in their OPSPECs due to safety concerns. Doing a circle to land in IMC raises the risk level to a point that many find unacceptable with 50+ pax on board in a cat C/D airplane, especially if it is only performed once every six months-year. I am not implying that someone is unsafe for doing them, just that it adds risk and that risk may not be acceptable, especially if the maneuver is performed infrequently.
 
FlyingScot said:
To the OP seems like a mute point. If your company wants you to do circling approaches they would type you to do so. If your next gig wants you to circle they'll pay for the training.

I can understand your pain though, to finally get your ATP but with restrictions, kind of sucks.
Click to expand...

Yep I have no problem with it being on my type, I just don't want it on my ATP as a restriction. It is a restriction on both, Seems like it won't be a problem to get it removed from the Certificate itself though, Go up vectored back in for an ILS to a circle and I am set. Thanks guys
 
FlyingScot said:
To the OP seems like a mute point. If your company wants you to do circling approaches they would type you to do so. If your next gig wants you to circle they'll pay for the training.

I can understand your pain though, to finally get your ATP but with restrictions, kind of sucks.
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mute point (plural mute points)

  1. Common misspelling of moot point.

As for contributing to the topic....As others have said, ask the APD if after the ride is over you can do a circle to land to remove it from your ATP, not the type.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
If anyone is a DPE on here I would appreciate the help with this.

When I complete upgrade training and get my PIC type for the Dash and my ATP both will have the restriction, "circling approaches VMC only." I know that unless I want to pay for an hour in the sim to go do a circling approach there is nothing I can do about the restriction on the type but if after the checkride, I went up in a dutchess with a DPE and shot a circling approach or a straight in approach circle to land, if I could get the restriction removed. Thanks in advance guys!
Click to expand...

The restriction is on your type rating, not your ATP/Commercial Certificate Ratings. A Duchess is not a Dash.
 
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