Any Advice?

Bailey Jones

Bailey Jones

New Member
I'm 18 and I'm just about to apply to Central Washington Univ in the next few hours. They have a well known 4 year first officer training program and a direct hire program to Alaska airlines as well. You also get your CFI to build up hours well above the required FAA minimums.

So I'm one in a million, I'm one of the fortunate kids who has college payed for completely. I have no debt after college. The reason I say this is because this is something I'd like you guys to take into account.

Starting salary is 25k a year for FO pilots on the q400 according to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/horizon_air.

I'll probably be living in/near the city (Seattle). Is this a livable salary in Seattle for a year or two?

I just want advice, anything for a new kid going into the airlines. It's been a dream to fly airliners for a long time. How long does it take to become a captain usually? And how long from then until I can become say a 737 pilot? Also how do you think the industry will be 10+ years from now?
 
In 4 years what you see today in the industry will be completely different. Best of luck in college and enjoy the ride.
 
Bailey Jones said:
Starting salary is 25k a year for FO pilots on the q400 according to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/horizon_air.

I'll probably be living in/near the city (Seattle). Is this a livable salary in Seattle for a year or two?
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I make almost double that as a CFI! (As a side note that's my nightmarish dread about deciding if I want to go airline as by the time I have enough hours to get hired by a regional I will probably will have to take a greater than 50% pay cut first year.)

Filling federal income tax single, you are looking at about $1800 a month after taxes, that's without health insurance or 401k deductions. For a 1 bed room apartment you are looking at around $950 a month in King County (and about $1200 in the city of Seattle itself), that's before utilities. Granted it's been almost 7 years since I left Seattle for the desert, but back in 2007 I remember my 1 bed room apartment being around $80 to $120 a month in electricity. If you think you can survive, after housing, on about $500 a month, yeah, sure that's livable. But that's $500 a month for food, gas, cable, phone, etc. Even living at home with my parents I couldn't do much when I was making $25,000/year living in the Seattle area.
 
Avoid avoid avoid!!!

Last month the program was shut down due to contract issues. Lot of future pilots training is uncertain with this school and I hear talk (this is rumor only) that there is a question of if they will keep their 141 status.

http://www.dailyrecordnews.com/memb...cle_efe6eb22-355f-11e4-a929-0019bb2963f4.html

I hear not so good things about Big Bend as well (1/2 an hour away and a sister school).

Both schools claim that they have "relationships" with the majors but its usually just sales tactics to get you to attend. You're going to apply the same way anyone else would and be subject to the same requirements as anyone else. It might help you slightly in the in person interview to have a rapour with a potential alum but don't think any school is going to give you a jump ahead of anyone else.

I know Big Bend also had a major shake up with the flight staff and a few long time instructors (not the low time CFIs) left. The chief pilot resigned, a 15 year instructor resigned and I heard that last summer no one could get certified at the end of the quarter, leaving a number of students having to come back for at least one more quarter.

Then with Central students trying to work with Big Bend to get training done neither school is looking good

If you want to stay in the PNW, I might look at Greenriver in Seattle, they just changed over to a 4 year program. Could of good schools down south in OR as well.

Good luck!
 
I live in Seattle now, its going to be tough to live here without roommates on 25K. Lots of places outside of Seattle. My one bedroom apt is $1350, I spend probably 250 a month in utils. But I live by myself and have other income. When I first moved here I was in Gig Harbor in a house for 950 a month. Utils were somewhere around 300-400 a month. But you can find good shared housing that you might live comfortably on 25K a year here.

But by the time you are ready to sign with a regional you'll be ready to move just about anywhere and probably will have to
 
Bailey Jones said:
I'm 18 and I'm just about to apply to Central Washington Univ in the next few hours. They have a well known 4 year first officer training program and a direct hire program to Alaska airlines as well. You also get your CFI to build up hours well above the required FAA minimums.
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Take a close look at CWU's flight program. According to alumni friends of mine... There's been some bad blood between the school and the company they contract the flight training to. Horizon is NOT Alaska. Horizon is NOT Alaska. I can't say that with enough emphasis. Alaska does own Horizon, but the relationship is much more akin to pimp-and-hooker than it is brotherly love...

Bailey Jones said:
Starting salary is 25k a year for FO pilots on the q400 according to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/horizon_air.

I'll probably be living in/near the city (Seattle). Is this a livable salary in Seattle for a year or two?
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I made 34k my first year at Horizon. 48k my second year, and I'm right at 50k as of last pay period this year. Keep in mind, this is just a snap-shot of three years of my life, and it's not representative of any theoretical outcome for you. It's very possible to live in the Seattle area on FO pay at Horizon. You won't make any real financial progress, but you'll survive.

Bailey Jones said:
I just want advice, anything for a new kid going into the airlines. It's been a dream to fly airliners for a long time. How long does it take to become a captain usually? And how long from then until I can become say a 737 pilot? Also how do you think the industry will be 10+ years from now?
Click to expand...
Current upgrade time at Horizon is about 8 years. This is irrelevant, as it will change rapidly and unpredictably in any possible direction. The length of service required at Horizon to become an Alaska pilot depends entirely on who you know. I'd say average is 12 years or so. There are many pilots who never make that jump, for any number of reasons.

If you're in the Seattle area, let me or @LaserRacer or maybe that bow-tie wielding dude @SurferLucas know. I'd be more than happy to sit down with you and detail how each of us got to where we are, and the different issues we faced along the way.





Lastly. If your goal is to fly Boeing narrow-bodies for a company in the Pacific Northwest, start looking at what is required to apply at Delta.
#hashtagmicdrop?
 
Nothing. But wasn't sure if he was just going there for the flight program.

It should probably read, 'go to a state school and major in something else than an aviation degree, get you training at a local airport, network, and keep your options open. Works well!'
 
av8tr1 said:
Avoid avoid avoid!!!

Last month the program was shut down due to contract issues. Lot of future pilots training is uncertain with this school and I hear talk (this is rumor only) that there is a question of if they will keep their 141 status.

http://www.dailyrecordnews.com/memb...cle_efe6eb22-355f-11e4-a929-0019bb2963f4.html

I hear not so good things about Big Bend as well (1/2 an hour away and a sister school).

Both schools claim that they have "relationships" with the majors but its usually just sales tactics to get you to attend. You're going to apply the same way anyone else would and be subject to the same requirements as anyone else. It might help you slightly in the in person interview to have a rapour with a potential alum but don't think any school is going to give you a jump ahead of anyone else.

I know Big Bend also had a major shake up with the flight staff and a few long time instructors (not the low time CFIs) left. The chief pilot resigned, a 15 year instructor resigned and I heard that last summer no one could get certified at the end of the quarter, leaving a number of students having to come back for at least one more quarter.

Then with Central students trying to work with Big Bend to get training done neither school is looking good

If you want to stay in the PNW, I might look at Greenriver in Seattle, they just changed over to a 4 year program. Could of good schools down south in OR as well.

Good luck!
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Yeah I went on a campus tour a week ago and heard about this contract issue. A few years ago I also visited with the head of the aviation department and got me thinking how Central is a great school. I've planned for years to go to Central and it's very unfortunate all of this has come up just now. But I guess you have to expect these sort of things in life. A few days ago I got into contact with the aviation people via email. They said everything was fine. Hopefully things will work out somehow. I don't care what I have to do, I just want to be a pilot and hopefully eventually work my butt off to get good enough pay to support myself and probably a family.

And about living "in" Seattle, I'll be more specific. Let's say near Seattle, even Federal way works if that's fair to say? (I live in Bellingham so I don't know much of Seattle.)

I'm not expecting to make 50k+ my first year on the job, I'm expecting to work my ass off and hopefully eventually get a good wage. Is this all worth it?! Or should I act now and just find something that's more stable? Don't get me wrong, I've had dreams of flying sense I was 10. But when it comes down to the future and I have to think about long term and actually supporting my family, I really do have second thoughts as much as I hate to. I appreciate all the help, especially from the folks in/near Seattle, very cool of you guys.
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that Alaska Airlines is unlikely to exist within 10 years. Don't get me wrong, nice airline and all but the reality of the competitive marketplace is what it is. DAL is going to seriously hurt them in Seattle no matter how much bravado they are currently showing.


TO
 
I'm glad I didn't go to a school where shutting down put my training in jeopardy. Don't have enough flights for me? Ok, have a nice life.
 
pete2800 said:
Lastly. If your goal is to fly Boeing narrow-bodies for a company in the Pacific Northwest, start looking at what is required to apply at Delta.
#hashtagmicdrop?
Click to expand...

typhoonpilot said:
Another thing to keep in mind is that Alaska Airlines is unlikely to exist within 10 years. Don't get me wrong, nice airline and all but the reality of the competitive marketplace is what it is. DAL is going to seriously hurt them in Seattle no matter how much bravado they are currently showing.


TO
Click to expand...

I'd look more closely at what it takes to get hired at SWA than Delta. Delta may mortally woulnd Alsaka, but SWA will be there with sharpened knives.
 
Bailey,
I think Seggy gave you the best advice. Find something else to go to college for and learn to fly at a local part 61 school. For a couple of reasons

1st off, Part 141 schools can be rip offs. They are horribly expensive for what they provide. At least twice the cost (if not three times) learning at a part 61 school. They do not provide a direct path to the airlines. The only benefit you get is that with an aviation degree from a 141 program you can apply for your ATP with 250 hours less. But the hourly cost would still be cheaper with a Part 61 school.

2nd, If you are looking for a loan for your training, you can get loans for local flight training as you can at a 141 school. Check out Pilot Finance for example. But getting a large loan for training is one of the worst mistakes you'll make. You're going to borrow a 60-80 thousand dollar loan for a job that will pay $25 an hour for the next 10 years. Does that make any sense?

3rd, what do you do if you loose your medical? By having a degree outside aviation, you have something to fall back on when the inevitable hits. You've got a 75% chance (completely made up number) of furlough in the airlines. Prepare for it now, so you can provide for your future family. Go learn programming PHP is extremely easy and you can do it while you are sitting at the airport. I do and make a ton of money doing freelance programming. Get a computer science degree and then program on the side making more money than your regular pilot job. I make $75 an hour programming. I fly maybe 4 hours a day and get $25 an hour as an instructor (usually less). I go home, do another 4 hours a day programming on freelance projects (usually more). Rinse repeat. Bills paid, shiny sports car in garage, and two motorcycles all paid for. And I still get to tell everyone I am a pilot for a living. And yes the chicks do dig pilots and I am an ugly old fart who hit a few branches falling out of the ugly tree.

Regarding Central, think about this. If they were that short sided enough to get into a situation like that with such notice as they had (and from what I hear they had over a year to know this was coming), do you really think they have the brightest bulbs running things over there?

One option not mentioned, is going the military route. They will pay for everything. If you are lucky enough to go to flight school in the military you might come out with everything you need to apply direct to the airlines when your commitment is completed. And it wont have cost you a dime. You'll probably be much closer to the airlines given the same amount of time for service vers college. National Guard or Reserves works just as well without a full time commitment.
 
av8tr1 said:
Bailey,
I think Seggy gave you the best advice. Find something else to go to college for and learn to fly at a local part 61 school. For a couple of reasons

1st off, Part 141 schools can be rip offs. They are horribly expensive for what they provide. At least twice the cost (if not three times) learning at a part 61 school. They do not provide a direct path to the airlines. The only benefit you get is that with an aviation degree from a 141 program you can apply for your ATP with 250 hours less. But the hourly cost would still be cheaper with a Part 61 school.

2nd, If you are looking for a loan for your training, you can get loans for local flight training as you can at a 141 school. Check out Pilot Finance for example. But getting a large loan for training is one of the worst mistakes you'll make. You're going to borrow a 60-80 thousand dollar loan for a job that will pay $25 an hour for the next 10 years. Does that make any sense?

3rd, what do you do if you loose your medical? By having a degree outside aviation, you have something to fall back on when the inevitable hits. You've got a 75% chance (completely made up number) of furlough in the airlines. Prepare for it now, so you can provide for your future family. Go learn programming PHP is extremely easy and you can do it while you are sitting at the airport. I do and make a ton of money doing freelance programming. Get a computer science degree and then program on the side making more money than your regular pilot job. I make $75 an hour programming. I fly maybe 4 hours a day and get $25 an hour as an instructor (usually less). I go home, do another 4 hours a day programming on freelance projects (usually more). Rinse repeat. Bills paid, shiny sports car in garage, and two motorcycles all paid for. And I still get to tell everyone I am a pilot for a living. And yes the chicks do dig pilots and I am an ugly old fart who hit a few branches falling out of the ugly tree.

Regarding Central, think about this. If they were that short sided enough to get into a situation like that with such notice as they had (and from what I hear they had over a year to know this was coming), do you really think they have the brightest bulbs running things over there?

One option not mentioned, is going the military route. They will pay for everything. If you are lucky enough to go to flight school in the military you might come out with everything you need to apply direct to the airlines when your commitment is completed. And it wont have cost you a dime. You'll probably be much closer to the airlines given the same amount of time for service vers college. National Guard or Reserves works just as well without a full time commitment.
Click to expand...


Despite Central's issues right now, the aviation department there has been completely fine if not stellar, everything from simulator training to actual in the air training was projected this year to be 54k with this contract. I'll admit maybe Central's aviation staff needs to be blamed for this fault, or maybe IASCO Flight Training, nobody really knows. Personally I think IASCO should be blamed, they signed the contract legally. I'm still applying since I can always change my mind later if they don't work something out somehow. But please don't think negatively of Central for this mistake, honestly other than this issue, they've always done a great job at training pilots professionally.

http://www.cwu.edu/aviation/facilities-and-flight-training-devices

Going to college to study something else is an option, I'm curious how in depth these local part 61 schools are.
 
Also what are some good schools in the area? I've also heard of Embry Riddle in Oak Harbor but don't know much about them or there big schools in Arizona and Florida. Could this be an option?
 
Bailey Jones said:
Also what are some good schools in the area? I've also heard of Embry Riddle in Oak Harbor but don't know much about them or there big schools in Arizona and Florida. Could this be an option?
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Riddle is an option depending on how much expendable wealth you have. It's probably the most expensive school I can think of. There are ways to shave costs off of it... I did it by doing some flight training ahead of time, and going to community college.


By the way, community college is the best deal in the history of deals.
 
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