Another time buidling question

GregCollins2

GregCollins2

Well-Known Member
I'm just curious to see what some of the opinions are here on the board, for a somewhat different time building situation. Let me preface this by saying up front that I am not a time builder, I'm already doing what I planned to do when I got into this business. I'm simply curious!

I own two airplanes, a PA28-161 and an Experimental Flightstar. I own a flight school but make most of my money selling and building experimentals, and through the college. The Warrior is operated as part of my flight school business.

I generally fly at least one of the aircraft about 1 to 1.5 hours per day, just for pleasure. I will frequently take anyone that happens to be around flying for the company, and because I enjoy giving people the experience. I will also give kids and teens free flights, again because I enjoy it and as part of Young Eagles. I log these flights as PIC and dual given. I am financially able to do this, and it gives me great pleasure. (If anybody on here ever winds up in central Georgia, and wants to fly something oddball, let me know!)

Here's the first question. Are the hours spent flying in my own airplanes (VFR, IFR, Aerobatic, and X-Country) somehow less valuable because I'm not providing instruction for revenue? If I suddenly decided to give up the freedom of being self employeed, should my hours be discounted by interviewers because I can afford to fly whenever I want, and so have a lot of hours. Stretching the notion a bit, are John Travolta's 707 and Gulf Stream hours not as good as a CFI's dual 172 hours?

While I'm solicting opinions, I'll ask something else. Georgia Aviation and Technical College provides totally free ground and flight instruction to all Georgia residents. The students only pay $58 per hour for the airplanes, everything else, including King Air and Citation simulator time is completely paid for through Georgia Hope Grants. Instructors (except for interns) are paid very well ($40K per year), but not by the students. My question on this one is: Is this an unfair advantage, and therefore, should employers discount graduate's hours and training, because they didn't pay anywhere near as much for it as most people do?

Once again, I'm not giving any opinion here myself, (I'm not totally crazy
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) just curious!
 
BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!!!!!!!!!!
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Let me preface this by saying up front that I am not a time builder, I'm already doing what I planned to do when I got into this business. I'm simply curious!


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Oh....sorry about that. It was just a flesh wound, wasn't it?
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I will also give kids and teens free flights

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Shout me a holla when you're in Boston!
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Hmmmmm.....Burn him at the stake, followed by a burning match avatar.

Guess I better get me one of them there Nomex flight suits
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! I think one of the crazy aerial sprayers around here could loan me one!
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To answer your question, flight time gained in your own personal plane is perfectly legit time, so far as anyone hiring is concerned. It's assumed, at least to me, that the logbook is sacred, and that any flight time put in said logbook is true and correct. The only thing you'd want to make sure you have, since you're not logging time supported by documents other than your personal ones, is all your required BFRs, instrument/landing currencies, etc, up to date and signed or noted in the remarks as appropriate. Keep the book in good order since you're the sole source for it, whereas on the other hand, someone that came from a 135 company might have company logs backing up their personal logbook.
 
Good points Mike.

We keep thorough fuel, flight, and maintenance records that correspond to my log book times. I also log, and sign dual, for anyone that flies with me, and I have them sign waivers if it's in an experimental.

I'm more curious about the opinion of the fact that about a third of my hours are being accumulated without "paying dues" as a flight instructor.
 
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Good points Mike.

We keep thorough fuel, flight, and maintenance records that correspond to my log book times. I also log, and sign dual, for anyone that flies with me, and I have them sign waivers if it's in an experimental.

I'm more curious about the opinion of the fact that about a third of my hours are being accumulated without "paying dues" as a flight instructor.

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IMO, you're still "paying dues" or gaining experience. You just happen to have your own plane, versus flying for someone else.
 
Just keep good, verifiable records of your flying.

But if a preponderance of your time is from (and not saying you are, however!) droning around in circles compared to another applicant with dual given or spend doing commercial operations, it's just not going to compare as favorably.

Here's a side question, I think I heard from a FSDO inspector that if you're logging dual given, there certainly better be a logbook with an equal amount of dual received which is verifiable.
 
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Here's a side question, I think I heard from a FSDO inspector that if you're logging dual given, there certainly better be a logbook with an equal amount of dual received which is verifiable.

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As I always told them when they asked to see my student's logbooks. "I''ll see if the next-of-kin still have them".

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D'oh!

As far as I know, the only student that I 'lost' was one who blew a drug test during screening at a regional airline new hire school.

Other than that, I think they're all safe and sane. No idea what happened to my Air India students, btw.
 
Speaking of air india, I was just reading an article that said they are short pilots and for the first time have to get foreign pilots to fly for them. I wonder how many ruppees they pay them?
 
Good advice Doug, I always make sure to log the instruction for the student, unless they have no intention of ever flying again. With my regular students, I keep a training jacket and log flights as though they where part of a 141 syllabus, including having the student sign that they received the training.

I haven't lost one yet, though I think some that never finished would be tough to track down!
 
Is it possible to log someone's time by putting it down on any random piece of paper and giving it to them?
 
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Speaking of air india, I was just reading an article that said they are short pilots and for the first time have to get foreign pilots to fly for them. I wonder how many ruppees they pay them?

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Not sure I want to work anyplace that pays me in rupees...
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A thousand hours of flying for pleasure is as good as flying a thousand hours as an Instructor. I can't recall a single person who was turned down for a job that they qualified for because they didn't instruct. Using this logic, banner tow and crop dusters would be at a disadvantage to one who instructs. This is simply not the case.

I know many who bought multi engine planes to get a good amount of multi time and some fly for the airlines, while others fly for Netjets.
 
Specifically, the point I was making is that 1000 flown commercially is a lot more valued than 1000 flown leisurely.

If you'd like, I'm currently flying with the captain who set up the pilot selection process for my employer and I would be more than comfortable securing a quote for ya!
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LOOK!! NEATO LITTLE PENALTY BOX STARS!
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I think your experience will shine through if the experience was valid. If you flew for pleasure but you flew safely, legally and professionally then it'll show, if you were a screw off in the airplane, that will show. We all take our attitudes from the airplane to the interview (I would hope). If you have a good attitude it'll show, if not you shouldn't show in the first place. However, I do find that instructors are a bit more knowledgeable when they hit ground school from the standpoint that we were buried up to our necks in it for a while, so the ability to correlate the information is much easier for us. Just my real world observation.
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I would like to have a quote because under that logic, crop dusters and banner tows don't stand a chance of being hired. Granted, the person with 3000 hours of leisure time is rare, It's still 3000 hours.

I do know that netjets does prefer some 135 or 121 time, but I know a few who were hired flying no 135 or 121 time at all.
 
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