Another DCA River Visual question...
- Thread starter killbilly
- Start date
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Why keep it tight to the west side? It's not a "prohibited area avoidance" approach, it's a noise abatement approach!
If you fly the center of the river the turn to final is much more shallow than if you're hugging the West Bank. It's more comfortable for the folks in back without any unnecessary airmanship. You're not going to be shot down or violated for being further east... It's a wide River.
If you fly the center of the river the turn to final is much more shallow than if you're hugging the West Bank. It's more comfortable for the folks in back without any unnecessary airmanship. You're not going to be shot down or violated for being further east... It's a wide River.
motormadness24
Well-Known Member
I bet @ATN_Pilot does not hand fly this approach.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
For me it is a fun approach simply because it is not just another straight in visual backed up with an ILS.
I like charted visual approaches simply because they get you outside of the normal "box" of being vectored onto final every single time.
As far as the autopilot... Our RVAV visual approach we load in the FMS will let the autopilot fly it all the way down, even handles the turn to final nicely.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The 717 will fly it pretty much flawlessly right until you have to make the turn to final. This is one approach that I sometimes use for my rare hand flying practice, though. The other would be the visuals into LaGarbage.
RRPower
Well-Known Member
Hand fly. In the RJ we set up the visual to 19 with a .5 dme fix then run the inbound course to 148. Gives you a general idea if you really suck. Seems like the American and Delta 737 guys all come bouncing in when its 10&CLR saying "Washington tower Merican/Delaaa xxxx on the RNAV to 19". It makes me shake my head. Are you seriously letting the AP fly the approach vs being a pilot?
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Not everybody is based in DCA and gets to fly that approach several time per trip or even per day.
With that in mind, I applaud them for using the automation. It has nothing to do with "being a pilot".
RumpleTumbler
Well-Known Member
if you're on the jumpseat its a good idea to STFU during this approach.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Are you normally chatty on the jumpseat during any approach?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
True story...
Years ago, when we were hiring 250 wonders still, I got a guy a few trips off IOE. Or first leg was DAY-PHL which I took and then, as DCA was reporting the MTV to 1 I gave him the second leg. Of course the spun the airport around and vectored us off to the north west to join the river southbound. I ask the FO if he'd flown this before, which he assured me he had so I let him keep on trucking in. It became apparent VERY quickly that he had no clue what to do, so I ended up talking him through the entire approach (which really isn't that hard if you get slowed down ahead of time) and landing. Afterwards I asked if he'd actually flown it before and it came out that not only had he not flown it, he hadn't even been the pilot not flying... or in the jumpseat, but rather in 7A in the back, looking out the window.
Years ago, when we were hiring 250 wonders still, I got a guy a few trips off IOE. Or first leg was DAY-PHL which I took and then, as DCA was reporting the MTV to 1 I gave him the second leg. Of course the spun the airport around and vectored us off to the north west to join the river southbound. I ask the FO if he'd flown this before, which he assured me he had so I let him keep on trucking in. It became apparent VERY quickly that he had no clue what to do, so I ended up talking him through the entire approach (which really isn't that hard if you get slowed down ahead of time) and landing. Afterwards I asked if he'd actually flown it before and it came out that not only had he not flown it, he hadn't even been the pilot not flying... or in the jumpseat, but rather in 7A in the back, looking out the window.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Wow...
At least we "fly" it several times during the initial sim sessions so we at least have somewhat of a clue as to what is going on with the approach.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Just because we're flying an RNAV or ILS or whatever approach, doesn't mean it's not being hand flown. All they are doing is telling the tower what type of guidance approach control cleared them for. Are you seriously saying if appraoch cleared you for one type of appraoch, you'd just arbitrarily change it?
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
If we do an RNP approach our procedures require the autopilot to be on until mins, even if visual before that. The RNP to 19 is a beautiful approach, but I still prefer to hand fly it most of the time, so I don't request the RNP.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
I tend to have a visual in the FMS with a 328 (I think that's it) radial set in the FMS. Big picture. Once cleared, pop off the autopilot, clear the FD and keep the river underneath. At that point it's "this plane, that runway, over that water". Fun approach compared to the usual vector to join, aka visual. If things don't quite look right the "big picture" is on the mfd as advisory.
Doing it at night is a different, but still fun and basic, twist.
Doing it at night is a different, but still fun and basic, twist.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Probably what it is are guys saying they are on the RNAV approach, when in reality it is a company published RNAV overlay for the actual charted visual approach procedure.
If that is the case... tower probably doesn't care. If they are on the RNAV (RNP)... different story.