Amphib questions

mhcasey

Well-Known Member
  1. Can I instruct in an amphib without an ASES license?
  2. Does it qualify as a "complex" for commercial training?
 

NickH

Uber Driver
Yes, but you can't land in the water.

If it also has flaps and a constant speed prop, then yes.
 

mhcasey

Well-Known Member
Yes, but you can't land in the water.
The student has PPL ASEL/ASES. After our lesson with me still in the airplane can I assume full PIC responsibilities and land us at his home lake? Can't think of any real problem with it other than I don't log a landing and maybe shave off .1 dual given for the approach.
 

splash

your social justice comic center
I'd call the FSDO on the first question just to make sure. I'd say NickH is right. I find it strange to be able to instruct in an amphib with out a float add on. I'm a bit confused about where you draw the line on amphibs myself. Humm, so you would log SEL and he would log SES the whole time? :confused:
 

ftyflyboy

Well-Known Member
It does not matter where you land. The airplane is SES on water and on land. If you don’t have a SES rating you cannot teach in it.

Similar to tailwheel instruction, can’t do it with out the tailwheel endorsement.
 

mhcasey

Well-Known Member
It does not matter where you land. The airplane is SES on water and on land. If you don’t have a SES rating you cannot teach in it.

Similar to tailwheel instruction, can’t do it with out the tailwheel endorsement.
Reg?

Is an El Camino a car or a truck?
 

tgrayson

New Member
From the old Part 61 FAQs:

QUESTION: What are the ratings needed to fly an amphibious airplane (Lake, Grumman Goose, etc.)? Does the PIC need both land and sea ratings, or can the pilot operate with only one of the ratings if operations are only to/from the surface on which the pilot is rated? I'd appreciate an “official” view. And we're not looking at ME vs. SE -- let's assume we're talking about a Lake Buccaneer and a pilot with only PVT-ASEL flying off land, or only PVT-ASES flying off water.

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.31(d)(1). Only the appropriate rating (land/sea) is required. To operate an amphibious airplane for water operations using the float landing gear, one must hold the Airplane Single-engine Sea or Airplane Multiengine Sea rating, as appropriate. To operate an amphibious airplane for land operations using the wheeled landing gear, one must hold the Airplane Single-engine Land or Airplane Multiengine Land rating, as appropriate.
 

esa17

Well-Known Member
It does not matter where you land. The airplane is SES on water and on land. If you don’t have a SES rating you cannot teach in it.
Incorrect. It is legal to fly in, land, and instruct in a 182 on floats or a Lake Buccaneer as long as all landings are conducted on land runways if you have your CFI-SEL. When the airplane is operating on its wheels it is a Single-Engine-Land aircraft. Now, once you touch water you'd better have that ASES or that is clearly busting the regs.
 

TangoBravo

New Member
It does not matter where you land. The airplane is SES on water and on land. If you don’t have a SES rating you cannot teach in it.

Similar to tailwheel instruction, can’t do it with out the tailwheel endorsement.
Thats complete and utter nonsense!!!
The Amphip on wheels is a Land Plane. You can most certainly teach in in it with a CFI without a Seaplane rating. You just cannot take off and land on water. If anyone tells you any different he/ she is breaking your cookies just to eat them.
And, positive, you can log it as complex because the Amphibian, if equipped with a constant speed prop and flaps counts as a Complex. However just because the airplane has a constant speed prop and flaps (Seaplane complex) does not mean you are truly teaching in a complex (just because you have a CFI SEL). Leave the gear up for once, or down for a water landing and you will notice.

I do log Amphibian time as complex, especially if utilizing my SES Commercial - but ,just because the reg says you can, does not mean you really have to cheat. If I was teaching SES it is complex time - but if I am teaching SEL (rather unlikely) in a Amphibian there is no reason to log it as Complex.
 

mhcasey

Well-Known Member
Incorrect. It is legal to fly in, land, and instruct in a 182 on floats or a Lake Buccaneer as long as all landings are conducted on land runways if you have your CFI-SEL. When the airplane is operating on its wheels it is a Single-Engine-Land aircraft. Now, once you touch water you'd better have that ASES or that is clearly busting the regs.
The student is rated with a PPL ASES. This is for commercial training. Why would it be illegal for me to "be along for the ride" between takeoff/landing on the lake and the practice area for maneuvers?
 

tgrayson

New Member
The student is rated with a PPL ASES. This is for commercial training. Why would it be illegal for me to "be along for the ride" between takeoff/landing on the lake and the practice area for maneuvers?
Probably more pertinent than the one I quoted before (yet somewhat contradictory):

QUESTION: A flight instructor in our district wants to know if he needs an airplane/single-engine sea rating in order to give instrument instruction in a Lake Buccaneer amphibian. There is some debate here in our office. I cite § 61.195(c) as making it a requirement for the instructor to hold an airplane/single-engine sea. Can you shed some light on this for us?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.195(c). Yes; As it states in § 61.195(c), “ . . hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.” Yes, a flight instructor would have to hold an airplane single-engine sea rating on his or her pilot certificate. Some of you may have seen some of the past policy interpretations on this kind of question, but § 61.195(c) got changed on August 4, 1997 so those policy interpretations are no longer valid. The new § 61.195(c) applies. As per § 61.195(c), a person would have to hold an airplane single-engine sea rating on his or her pilot certificate.
 

mhcasey

Well-Known Member
Thanks TGrayson - Good ref.

Probably more pertinent than the one I quoted before (yet somewhat contradictory):

QUESTION: A flight instructor in our district wants to know if he needs an airplane/single-engine sea rating in order to give instrument instruction in a Lake Buccaneer amphibian. There is some debate here in our office. I cite § 61.195(c) as making it a requirement for the instructor to hold an airplane/single-engine sea. Can you shed some light on this for us?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.195(c). Yes; As it states in § 61.195(c), “ . . hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.” Yes, a flight instructor would have to hold an airplane single-engine sea rating on his or her pilot certificate. Some of you may have seen some of the past policy interpretations on this kind of question, but § 61.195(c) got changed on August 4, 1997 so those policy interpretations are no longer valid. The new § 61.195(c) applies. As per § 61.195(c), a person would have to hold an airplane single-engine sea rating on his or her pilot certificate.
 
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