ALPA National Officers and Employees Salaries

meritflyer

Well-Known Member
LINK

Maybe ALPA National should consider giving back to the union members during hard economic times.

Personally, I was amazed to see the President of ALPA National making nearly $500,000 IN 2005.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
What the hell happened to you, merit? You leave the industry and suddenly you're anti-ALPA?

Here's some real facts for you: unionfacts.com is full of total BS, not facts at all. It's run by a man named Richard Berman who is a lobbyist for anti-labor groups. He's made a fortune by destroying the "little people" in this country. He spent years lobbying for a group that did nothing but fight an increase to the minimum wage. He despises unions, and he uses his anti-union website to trick union members into turning against their own unions and fellow members.

Here's the truth: those figures that you see posted on that site are the figures that ALPA is required by the Bush administration to submit to the DOL. They include not only salary, but benefits and expenses also. When ALPA reimbursed me for a hotel, the DOL considered that as taxable income for me, and ALPA was required to report it to the DOL as "compensation" that I received. All of those compensation figures that you see on that website include the same things. Hotels, taxis, rental cars, meals, housing allowance in DC, etc... It isn't money that they actually get. The President of ALPA has never made anything close to $500k, even during the good times before 9/11 and after UAL '00. It's all a bogus scam that the anti-labor administration has cooked up in cahoots with scumbags like Berman to destroy labor. Don't fall for it.
 

Kristie

Mama Bear....
Staff member
so what's up with this then?

Starting July 28, the ALPA Board of Directors will be voting on a change to the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws. If approved by two-thirds of the BOD, this change would make all pilot salary deferrals to 401(k) pension plans subject to dues. This would replace existing policy—currently pilot contributions to 401(k) plans are exempt from dues only if the 401(k) is the pilot’s only pension plan—and would both clarify ALPA policy and ensure that it applies consistently to members across the Association. The proposed revision was strongly endorsed by the Executive Council and Executive Board. Please watch this video outlining why this vote matters to all ALPA members.
I mean, we all know ALPA guys make some bank...and it seems they want more off the coat tails of those who lost their pensions and only have 401(k)s to back them up? all because of the USAirways pilots who opted out right? Can they not do with lower salaries till things look up? i mean, what an inappropriate time to do this with tons of people are being furloughed....

From what i understand, membership doesn't even get an opportunity to vote on something like this.
 

meritflyer

Well-Known Member
I found it disturbing, Todd. I've always said ALPA needs a major shift in the way it does business, in my opinion. So where did I say I was anti-ALPA? Right, I didn't.

What the hell happened to you? Didn't you swear this site off?
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
Hotels and rental cars (and even in some cases meals) while away on business is one thing but housing allowance in DC? That can easily be near a hundred thousand dollars a year depending on where he lives and generally speaking people are expected to pay their own housing, even if they have to "commute" so that definitely should be included in the "compensation" total. He can get a crash pad like the rest of us if he doesn't want to rent/buy himself.

I loves ya PCL but that site does break it down by "Salary" and "Other Compensation" then "Total". Duane Worst made $348k (salary) + 137k (other compensation). Actually more than many airline executives, excepting of course bonuses and SOs which is generally where the airline execs make most of their money as I understand it.

I'm a proud dues paying ALPA member myself, so I do have to mention that as far as unions go ALPA salaries are generally less than many others. The teamsters for example has a much higher ratio of higher-paid employees compared to lesser paid employees than ALPA does.

Also, that site is full of facts. You just have to understand the perspective and agenda of the person presenting them to you. They are facts, saying otherwise only makes you look defensive. What I would want to know though is -- what facts did Mr. Berman decline to present? Because that is sometimes as important as which ones he did give you.
 

Gonzo

Well-Known Member
The way I understand it ALPA reps make 100-110 hours a month. Base on the pay they can hold at their airline plus a per diem.
 

Gonzo

Well-Known Member
I mean, we all know ALPA guys make some bank...and it seems they want more off the coat tails of those who lost their pensions and only have 401(k)s to back them up? all because of the USAirways pilots who opted out right? Can they not do with lower salaries till things look up? i mean, what an inappropriate time to do this with tons of people are being furloughed....
It was not just US Airways but also America West, Aloha, ATA, Champion, Kitty Hawk. I guess about 15 million in dues.

From what i understand, membership doesn't even get an opportunity to vote on something like this.
Yes and No. My rep has stated he plans to vote no for all 250 votes he can, but he will make a few yes votes if any fo's tell him they want him to vote yes and why.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
Some reps may make 100 hours of credit, but at least where I'm at most don't. Then add to the fact that as a committee member (not even a rep) I spend anywhere between 10 and 30 hours a week OF MY OWN TIME doing union work. I only get flight loss pay if I can't fly a trip because of required ALPA work.

And the 401K thing... I'm on my treo so I don't want to write out a full response but there is a whole lot more to it than has been written here.
 

JoelT

Well-Known Member
All right yall. Let's take a lesson on what a "Rep", "MEC Officer", and "National Officer" are.

"Rep" (or LEC rep) is a line pilot that flies the line full time. He does not get full time flight pay loss. He is paid what he flies. However, when there is a MEC meeting he is provided flight pay loss if he misses a trip for that meeting. LEC meetings HAVE to be on a day off. If you ever see a Rep in defending a pilot in the CPO, he is doing it for free. When I was a Rep many years ago I actually lost money.

"MEC Officer" is the Chairman, Vice-Chair, and Sec/Tres. These guys are full time flight pay loss. However, most MECs have their Vice and S/T as part-time flight pay loss. MEC officers are paid differently at each airline. Most use a formula such as an average of three pilots pay in the same catagory.

"National Officer" is the President, First Vice President, Vice Pres Admin, and Vice Pres Finance. Only the President gets a salary that has nothing to do with what he flew on the line. All the other guys are paid based off of their line pay. I can't remember the formula off the top of my head though.

One more catagory of National Officers are the EVPs or Executive Vice Presidents. Just like Reps these guys are NOT full time flight pay loss. The only times that they get flight pay loss are when they attend meetings that interfere with their trips.

So, when ever anyone wants to talk about how ALPA guys make "bank". There are only four pilots on the national level. Only one of those gets a salary mainly because that is the only elected position within ALPA that does not have to be a pilot. The salary is based on an average of the top three pay scales in ALPA plus expenses. I think that is very reasonable considered how much the job is a PITA.
 

Orange Anchor

New Member
Capt C says
So, when ever anyone wants to talk about how ALPA guys make "bank". There are only four pilots on the national level. Only one of those gets a salary mainly because that is the only elected position within ALPA that does not have to be a pilot. The salary is based on an average of the top three pay scales in ALPA plus expenses. I think that is very reasonable considered how much the job is a PITA.
Doesn't work. these guys seek these positions and then fight arduously to KEEP the position. Not exactly what one would consider a PITA.

Dwayne hoodwinked the line-swine (*) and took a huge pay increase when everyone else was taking huge pay cuts as well as losing other parts of the contract. It was another example of everyone being equal on the farm, just some more equal than others.

Many of the guys I know who are on committees are there because they believe in what they are doing and I applaud their time, commitment and talents. But when you start getting to the top, it seems the DC virus infects them and they become just another 'pol'.

(* Note- the use of the term, 'line-swine' is a term much like 'freight dogs' used with considerable admiration and appreciation for it is they who get the job done day in and day out )
 

JoelT

Well-Known Member
Capt C says
Doesn't work. these guys seek these positions and then fight arduously to KEEP the position. Not exactly what one would consider a PITA.

Dwayne hoodwinked the line-swine (*) and took a huge pay increase when everyone else was taking huge pay cuts as well as losing other parts of the contract. It was another example of everyone being equal on the farm, just some more equal than others.
Huge pay raise? When I was a member of the BOD I remember voting on a slight change as to how the President's pay was calculated. Nothing that I would call a pay raise though. BTW, since DW's pay was based on the top three ALPA pay rates he took a paycut too.

Could you folks please get you facts straight before posting? Rumor and innuendo that you heard from some dude in the crew room does not count.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
And the 401K thing... I'm on my treo so I don't want to write out a full response but there is a whole lot more to it than has been written here.
Just hope all of us 401(k) only companies can hold the line and vote no.

Need 2/3rds approval. . .so it'll be interesting to see if we get thrown under the bus once again.

Think ALPA had a hard time losing the companies they've already lost this year - not sure about PSA - but there are some nuclear options being talked about over here.
 

JoelT

Well-Known Member
But when you start getting to the top, it seems the DC virus infects them and they become just another 'pol'.
I couldn't let this go either. There are FOUR National officers. I know three of them personally. John's cell number is still stored in my phone. These folks are good, upstanding people. They have put more work into defending the profession than you can imagine. It's the system that sucks (RLA), not the players.

I know a lot of you think that all pilots have to do is bust down the airline boardroom doors and start spraying the place with AK-47s, but I'm sorry, the process is not that easy.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Dear Board of Directors:

Starting on July 28, you will be asked to vote on an important change to the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws. If approved by two-thirds of the Board of Directors, this change would make all pilot salary deferrals to 401(k) pension plans subject to dues. This would replace current policy, which contains an outdated patchwork of exemptions that do not treat all ALPA members fairly and fail to account for massive changes in how pilots are paid under negotiated contracts. The proposed revision was endorsed by the Executive Council and Executive Board, which consists of the pilot representatives you elected to consider any updates to our policies and procedures.

Before you cast your vote, I am asking you to review this letter and the attached information points. Additionally, ALPA’s vice president of administration, Capt. Bill Couette, and vice president of finance/treasurer, Capt. Randy Helling, will be taping a video message for you and all ALPA members. This video will explain the reasons behind this recommended change and should help you explain to your pilots why this vote is so important. In case you have any further questions, Captains Couette and Helling are available to discuss this important matter with you.
Before you make a decision, please consider the following points:

* The Executive Board and Executive Council studied this issue for more than two years before passing this resolution;
* Making 401(k) deferrals subject to dues will not reduce a pilot’s 401(k) contribution, and there will be no dues on company contributions to 401(k) plans;
* Current policy does not treat all members the same, both within and between pilot groups, since many already pay dues on their defined-contribution plans;
* For those pilots affected by this change, the average per-pilot increase in dues would be around $7 per semi-monthly paycheck;
* Leaving the current provisions in place will cause dues income to further erode as DC plans are consolidated into 401(k) plans;
* The current policy is too complex for airline payroll departments to administer accurately, and does not permit ALPA to verify what airlines report as income subject to dues;
* In accordance with Spending Limit Policy, much of the additional dues income will flow back to the MECs who represent most of the affected pilots. These MECs historically receive supplemental funding from the OCF to support their activities; and
* The additional dues income is integral to preserving existing services.

When we agree to serve as an elected representative within ALPA, we take on the heavy burden of serving our pilots while protecting the long-term health of our union. This vote is a classic example of how that balancing act can challenge us. I believe that the Executive Council and Board did a solid job of weighing all the alternatives and endorsing a change that will minimize the cost to pilots while protecting the financial health of our union. Now the Board of Directors must decide if it agrees that the proposed policy change treats all our members fairly and protects the association. Please review all the information available and cast your vote in accordance with what you view are the best interests of our members.

In Solidarity,

John Prater

_____________________________________________________

401(k) DUESABILITY INFORMATION
BACKGROUND

* Article IX, Section 3, of the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws (CBL) states that all airline income of a member is subject to dues.
* Section 4 identifies the elements of airline income that are exempt from dues, including 401(k) deferrals when the 401(k) plan is a pilot’s only pension plan. This section was adopted more than 20 years ago when 401(k) plans were largely deferred income plans and most pilots had other plans through which they received company-funded retirement benefits.
* In their 2002 contract, ATA pilots got a DC plan, which caused their 401(k) deferrals to become subject to dues. The ATA MEC asked the Executive Council to change the CBL to make all 401(k) deferrals exempt from dues.
* Subsequent to the request from the ATA MEC, the VP-Finance reported to the Executive Council that exempting all 401(k) deferrals would cost ALPA $6 million in annual dues revenue, which in a declining dues environment the Executive Council felt ALPA could not afford if the union was going to preserve the quality and level of service that members receive.
* The Executive Board directed the Executive Council in September 2006 to create a subcommittee to review all the exemptions outlined in the CBL, Article IX, Section 4.
* The subcommittee approached this issue with the intent to:
1. Ensure fairness of ALPA dues structure within pilot groups and across the association;
2. Simplify contractually-negotiated airline income reporting to ALPA in order to perform the annual dues reconciliation; and
3. Analyze the effect on ALPA dues income with any change to the exemptions.
* The subcommittee made several reports to the Executive Council. One recommendation was to eliminate the exemption for 401(k) salary deferrals when the plan is the pilot’s only pension program. This recommendation was unanimously endorsed by the Executive Council and overwhelmingly approved by the May 2008 Executive Board. Since this is a change to the CBL, it requires a two-thirds majority BOD vote.

A MATTER OF FAIRNESS

* First, it’s about fairness within a pilot group: At an airline where 401(k) income deferrals are exempt from dues, two pilots can fly the same equipment in the same seat and earn the same income. But, if one pilot defers income into a 401(k), he or she pays less in dues than a pilot who does not defer his or her income. Alternatively, at an airline with a frozen defined benefit plan, pilots who are newly hired may be eligible only for the 401(k) plan—not the frozen pension plan. Nevertheless, their 401(k) deferral is subject to dues under current rules, even though the only pension program available to them is the 401(k). This is the only way the provision can be administered because airlines cannot be relied upon to correctly interpret ALPA’s CBL and the airlines are not required to—and therefore do not—report detailed income information to ALPA to verify compliance with ALPA’s CBL.
* It’s about fairness between pilot groups: A growing number of pilot groups have only defined-contribution plans. Under current provisions, pilots at these airlines can receive the same level of company contributions to the retirement plan and defer the same amount of income within their 401(k)—but pay different dues amounts. How? If the company contribution is into a 401(k), the deferred income contributed by a pilot to such 401(k) is exempt from dues. But if company contributions are into a non-401(k) defined-contribution plan, these contributions are subject to dues.
* It’s about fairness across the whole union: The current CBL provisions incentivize pilot groups to consolidate retirement plans under a 401(k) umbrella to qualify for the dues exemption. More pilot groups either have consolidated or are planning to consolidate retirement plans within 401(k)s, with company contributions unrelated to employee contributions. This incentive is creating a growing inequity between pilot groups that have consolidated plans and those that do not. The ability of pilot groups to consolidate is affected by factors outside of their control, including the amendable date of their contract, negotiating timelines, and the willingness of their airline to negotiate changes.

IMPACT ON SERVICES

* The Executive Council subcommittee estimated that in 2007, exempting all 401(k) deferrals would result in roughly $6 million in lost annual revenue.
* Leaving the current provision in place will put further downward pressure on dues income as pilot groups are incentivized to consolidate DC plans under the 401(k) umbrella. We will eventually lose the amount of dues revenue that would have been lost if the CBL was changed to exempt all 401(k) deferrals from dues.
* The recent loss of $15 million in dues as a result of losing AAA/AWA, KHA, SYX, ATA, ALO, and CHA has caused ALPA to undertake significant reengineering programs to offset the revenue loss. The resultant revenue loss to the Administrative and Support (A&S, or National) Account is, per policy, 60% or $9 million annually. In response to this, ALPA has already completed a reengineering plan, which has included the reduction of more than 100 staff positions and other cost-saving measures since the events of September 11. ALPA is under further pressure from airline capacity reductions and will have to make additional cuts.
* Making all 401(k) deferrals subject to dues would result in around $1.5 million in additional annual revenue.
* Further reductions in dues revenue and concurrent cost/service reductions will have the greatest negative impact on the smaller (Group B) airlines that do not have the MEC financial and internal staff resources of the larger (Group A) airlines.
* Additional revenue will be flowing back to the MECs that historically require supplemental funding by the OCF and MCF. This is more important today than ever because, as dues revenue declines, Group B airlines will receive less in MEC income under the ALPA Spending Limit Policy, and the amount of funding available in the OCF for supplementary MEC funding shrinks.
* The average per-pilot increase in dues would be around $7 per paycheck, for those currently not paying dues on income deferred to a 401(k).
* The additional dues amount to be paid by a pilot have been estimated as follows:

• Annual income of $25,000 or less: $.81/paycheck • $25,000 - $50,000 $2/paycheck • $50,000 - $75,000 $5/paycheck • $75,000 - $100,000 $7/paycheck • $100,000 - $125,000 $9/paycheck • $125,000 - $150,000 $11/paycheck • $150,000 - $175,000 $11/paycheck
 

JoelT

Well-Known Member
Personally - no. But I'm sure the ones at my company who are willing to follow through with a decertification effort really don't give a ####.

A shame really.
They have been trying to do that for the past ten years. That is nothing new.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
I mean, we all know ALPA guys make some bank...and it seems they want more off the coat tails of those who lost their pensions and only have 401(k)s to back them up? all because of the USAirways pilots who opted out right? Can they not do with lower salaries till things look up? i mean, what an inappropriate time to do this with tons of people are being furloughed....
First, Kristie, the guys that lost their A-funds (what you call "pensions") aren't going to be affected by this. Doug lost his A-fund, but he still has a pension. His B-fund is considered a pension. So, nothing will change for Doug or any other pilot who lost his A-fund. They've already been paying dues based off of gross income that includes 401(k) contributions. Nothing new here for the Delta pilots. This will only affect the guys at the smaller carriers that don't have A-funds or B-funds.

From what i understand, membership doesn't even get an opportunity to vote on something like this.
Nope, but the BOD must vote by a 2/3 margin to pass it. That's a pretty high bar, and I don't think it will happen. The BOD usually acts as a rubber stamp on most issues, but I'm hearing lots of dissent this time around. I bet it fails.

What the hell happened to you? Didn't you swear this site off?
I tried. It didn't take. ;)

Hotels and rental cars (and even in some cases meals) while away on business is one thing but housing allowance in DC? That can easily be near a hundred thousand dollars a year depending on where he lives and generally speaking people are expected to pay their own housing, even if they have to "commute" so that definitely should be included in the "compensation" total. He can get a crash pad like the rest of us if he doesn't want to rent/buy himself.
You don't seem to understand the difference between a regular commuting pilot and a national officer. When you commute, you're home at least 8 days a month. Prater would be lucky to be home 8 days a year. Duane Woerth averaged about 20 days off each year he was in office. This is a non-stop job that doesn't give you time for commuting home. You want the President, who needs to be at the top of his game 24/7 for dealing with lobbyists, politicians, and management, to be crammed into a crash pad with 12 other pilots? Bad idea. The national officers have no choice but to keep a separate full residence in DC, and that should be paid for by the Association.

I loves ya PCL but that site does break it down by "Salary" and "Other Compensation" then "Total". Duane Worst made $348k (salary) + 137k (other compensation).
"Salary" includes an override for benefits. That's not his actual salary you would see on his paycheck.

Capt C says
Doesn't work. these guys seek these positions and then fight arduously to KEEP the position. Not exactly what one would consider a PITA.
Yes, they most certainly are a PITA. I ran for office and fought to keep my position because I thought I could do the best job and improve the profession and the conditions that my pilots worked under, but that doesn't mean the position was anything other than a pain in the ass. It was stressful, thankless, and non-stop work. If you think any officer position is "cushy," then you're dreaming.

Dwayne hoodwinked the line-swine (*) and took a huge pay increase when everyone else was taking huge pay cuts as well as losing other parts of the contract. It was another example of everyone being equal on the farm, just some more equal than others.
Get your facts straight. Duane took a pay cut after 9/11.

But when you start getting to the top, it seems the DC virus infects them and they become just another 'pol'.
I know all four of the national officers, and I can assure you that they are anything but "just pols." They are hardcore trade unionists that believe in what they're doing. I think you should refrain from attacking their character when it's doubtful that you've ever even met them.
 

Trip7

Well-Known Member
Why are we always ripping how much other people are making? We get offended when people say pilots are overpaid, then we turn around and rip our National MEC for being overpaid. Absolute nonsense guys.
 
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