ALPA Educational Event---EWR

Cruise

Well-Known Member
To Members and Potential Members of the Colgan Organizing Committee-




The Training event will last from 9 AM – 12 PM and will include an overview of all of the benefits of ALPA membership for you to discuss with your fellow pilots, as well as a review of the NMB election process and strategies for effective grassroots organizing. The session will be followed on each day by an open forum event for all Colgan pilots to visit with ALPA volunteers and staff about the benefits of representation by ALPA. The sessions will be the same on both days, so you only need to attend once.

The meetings will be at Sheraton – Newark Airport (Tuesday) or Marriott – Newark Airport (Wednesday). Please RSVP to let me know if you plan to attend and if you require a hotel room the night before or after the event.

In unity,
Jeff

Jeff Loesel
Contract Administrator
Air Line Pilots Assn., Intl.
535 Herndon Parkway
Herndon, VA 20170

Ph: (703) 689-4227
Cell: (571) 309-7826
Fax: (703) 689-4300
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Wish I could be there to get a little more info. My vote is already yes. I think I have most of my new hire class in the frame of mind that a union is needed.

During indoc we where discussing our work rules and such. They said that currently Colgan has a minimum 11 days off. Someone then asked the question if that was a day off or just a 24 hour period. He then gave the example of going off duty at 1500 one day and starting the next day at 1530. We where then told that this scenario is a day off.

During break I discussed with them how a contract could take care of that.

My classmates also loved how Colgan can sit us at an airport for 14 hours and not require a hotel and they thought that was absured. I told them that most union carriers have a clause that states over a certain amount of time at an airport requires a hotel.

Anyway.... Can't wait to start IOE next week!
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
wth - thought you were over at the Piedmonster Rob. . .

Nevertheless. . .good chap for getting on the right side. Let's bring it home for a victory!

Colonel: Then how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?
 

L-16B

Well-Known Member
Wish I could be there to get a little more info. My vote is already yes. I think I have most of my new hire class in the frame of mind that a union is needed.

During indoc we where discussing our work rules and such. They said that currently Colgan has a minimum 11 days off. Someone then asked the question if that was a day off or just a 24 hour period. He then gave the example of going off duty at 1500 one day and starting the next day at 1530. We where then told that this scenario is a day off.

During break I discussed with them how a contract could take care of that.

My classmates also loved how Colgan can sit us at an airport for 14 hours and not require a hotel and they thought that was absured. I told them that most union carriers have a clause that states over a certain amount of time at an airport requires a hotel.

Anyway.... Can't wait to start IOE next week!
I'll be there for sure. When do you not get a hotel? I get one on stand up overnights, even if I'm there for 4 hours. If it's hot reserve, than you don't get one..... Other than that when would you not get a hotel?
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
I'll be there for sure. When do you not get a hotel? I get one on stand up overnights, even if I'm there for 4 hours. If it's hot reserve, than you don't get one..... Other than that when would you not get a hotel?
When your plane breaks and you have to sit around waiting for maintenance to fix something with some made up time for it to be finished.

-Rob
 

USMC-SSGT

Well-Known Member
I can't make it either, someone steal me a lanyard. I've got the all the alpa education I need in my left seat this week.
 

SpiceWeasel

Tre Kronor
During indoc we where discussing our work rules and such. They said that currently Colgan has a minimum 11 days off. Someone then asked the question if that was a day off or just a 24 hour period. He then gave the example of going off duty at 1500 one day and starting the next day at 1530. We where then told that this scenario is a day off.

During break I discussed with them how a contract could take care of that.
Oh really? Can a contract really take care of that? :p PNCL... your bro's, well, we have 10 days off minimum.... reducible as long as you receive a "comp day" which they never award - it's easier to sell the comp day. Oh and yeah, the day off thing, our contract has what you guys have... 24 hours. So.... well we can all be naive and say a contract will take care of it.....:mad: But heck, your holding company doesn't even care if it's written in a contract.... if anything, if it is written down it makes it easier for them; they realize what our "rules" are so they can break them; so we can fly now, grieve later. Brilliant!
 

Cruise

Well-Known Member
But heck, your holding company doesn't even care if it's written in a contract.... if anything, if it is written down it makes it easier for them; they realize what our "rules" are so they can break them; so we can fly now, grieve later. Brilliant!
Serious question: If you know it's against the contract, why can't you turn the assignment down? What are the repercussions for refusing something that shouldn't have been assigned in the first place?
 

Rocketman99

Frozen Guppy Manipulator
Ya know, I've always wondered that. I don't buy into the fly it now grieve it later BS. If the contract says I can't I don't. I can't arbitrarily decide to break the contract and have the company "grieve" it so why can they? Total BS.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Oh really? Can a contract really take care of that? :p PNCL... your bro's, well, we have 10 days off minimum.... reducible as long as you receive a "comp day" which they never award - it's easier to sell the comp day. Oh and yeah, the day off thing, our contract has what you guys have... 24 hours.

ACTUALLY....

"A pilot will be granted one day off in any seven consecutive day period in domicile" is what it says. Based on prior grievances and definition, "day" means CALENDAR day, not 24 hours like the FARs state. If they EVERY try to make you work with less than a calendar day off, call a rep IMMEDIATELY. The above example of off at 1500 and working at 1530 the next day would NOT be a calendar day, and would therefore be illegal per the CBA.

So.... well we can all be naive and say a contract will take care of it.....:mad: But heck, your holding company doesn't even care if it's written in a contract.... if anything, if it is written down it makes it easier for them; they realize what our "rules" are so they can break them; so we can fly now, grieve later. Brilliant!
I know things are pretty sucky over here right now with the negotiations (buy hey, at least you're still going to ATL :) ), but just hang in there. Imagine how worse off we'd be without the contract.

As far as what Colgan can do....ask Seggy about the time they put him in a hotel for 24 hours then worked him another 6 days.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Serious question: If you know it's against the contract, why can't you turn the assignment down? What are the repercussions for refusing something that shouldn't have been assigned in the first place?
If it were me, I would turn it down. What'll happen is they put you down for a missed trip, and you'll have to do a carpet dance with the base manager. Grab you a union rep for the carpet dance, go in and see the base manager, show them what they were attempting to do, and watch as the missed trip magically goes away.

Scheduling loves to threaten people with missed trips, but the only person that can make it stick is a base manager. I got missed trip for jury duty once. I laughed at the scheduler and told them "do what ya gotta do."
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Oh really? Can a contract really take care of that? :p PNCL... your bro's, well, we have 10 days off minimum.... reducible as long as you receive a "comp day" which they never award - it's easier to sell the comp day. Oh and yeah, the day off thing, our contract has what you guys have... 24 hours. So.... well we can all be naive and say a contract will take care of it.....:mad: But heck, your holding company doesn't even care if it's written in a contract.... if anything, if it is written down it makes it easier for them; they realize what our "rules" are so they can break them; so we can fly now, grieve later. Brilliant!
You really should learn your own contract before you start going off on these kinds of rants. You don't have a 24-hour "day" in your contract. You get a full calendar day. As for comp days, if you comply with the language in the LOA in how you submit your request, then you'll get your comp day. We worked hard to achieve that comp day LOA when I was on the MEC, so use the damned thing.

Ya know, I've always wondered that. I don't buy into the fly it now grieve it later BS. If the contract says I can't I don't. I can't arbitrarily decide to break the contract and have the company "grieve" it so why can they? Total BS.
I'll let you in on a little secret (something I couldn't say when I was a rep): when a union rep tells you to "fly now, grieve later," he's only complying with what the law wants him to tell you. In his own mind, he's thinking "I hope this pilot doesn't listen to me and refuses the trip. I know I would." I never accepted illegal assignments. Refused them every time. But I still had to tell all of the pilots that I represented to "fly now, grieve later," even though I didn't follow my own advice. It's just something that a union rep legally has to tell you. He can't tell you to disregard management's orders, even when they are blatantly violating the contract. If you refuse the assignment, then nothing will end up happening to, unless management just hates you so much that they're willing to fire you over it and spend tens of thousands of dollars in legal and court fees in a futile effort to keep you from winning your job back, which they know you will.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Todd, getting a comp day is like pulling teeth now. They like to throw that "best of the company's ability" line a LOT. Heck, even with over 30 reserve CAs in DTW, MEM and MSP you still can't drop a trip.
 

Airdale

Well-Known Member
I'll let you in on a little secret (something I couldn't say when I was a rep): when a union rep tells you to "fly now, grieve later," he's only complying with what the law wants him to tell you. In his own mind, he's thinking "I hope this pilot doesn't listen to me and refuses the trip. I know I would." I never accepted illegal assignments. Refused them every time. But I still had to tell all of the pilots that I represented to "fly now, grieve later," even though I didn't follow my own advice. It's just something that a union rep legally has to tell you. He can't tell you to disregard management's orders, even when they are blatantly violating the contract. If you refuse the assignment, then nothing will end up happening to, unless management just hates you so much that they're willing to fire you over it and spend tens of thousands of dollars in legal and court fees in a futile effort to keep you from winning your job back, which they know you will.
I've already refused a few assignments that were not in compliance with our CBA. Scheduler wasn't too happy, but I don't care. If its written in the contract, they follow it. If written in a REG, we follow it in our job. I make sure they do the same..
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Pretty sure there is. However, there's so many grievances on file over here it may literally take a year to get to it....maybe two.
 

adreamer

Well-Known Member
For fellow Colgan pilots, I wish you guys the best. :rawk:

I think I have most of my new hire class in the frame of mind that a union is needed.
I would not assume that. ;)

[Hijack]
Airdale, are you flying for CHQ/RP/SA? is it true you have to pay company 50 dollar annually for non-rev on your own company? :confused:
[End of Hijack]
 
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