ALPA & CEOs Salary

M

mrambo

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I've been cruising these boards for a few months and something that I've noticed is that most of you all have gripes with the management of these airlines and how they "underpay" pilots and "overpay" the CEOs of these companies. My question is, if you all have a union (which I thought ALPA is) why don't you all go on strike? What's with all the agreeing to concessions in salary and benefits but then a year later say you got a "raw deal" and want more money?

I see that some of you all place the blame on SJS (shiny jet syndrome) and the younger less experienced pilots (read: not "aviators") that just want to drive a jet. But if I'm not mistaken an airline's biggest profit maker is on cargo and premium seats (especially international flights). What would happen if some 20 year captains decided not to take a JFK-LHR or SFO-NRT/SYD flight or two. Do you think the airlines would listen? I doubt the cockpit of a 747 or A350 is as easy to fill as a CRJ.

I hope this post isn't seen as confrontational I'm just really curious as to why things in this industry work the way they do. I used to work for a labor union and was telling a buddy of mine that I started on my PPL and about this industry and asked me why don't the pilots organize. I couldn't give him a reason as to why ALPA's situation is what it is.

Thanks,

MR.
 
You can't "just go on strike". That's illegal. There's a whole process (per the RLA) that must be gone through to reach the point of a strike.

Then, you have to hope that 'ole Bushy doesn't invoke a PEB. Cause, after all, the nation would disintegrate if a labor group at an airline went on strike. (Slight bitterness at Bush and his PEBs because of his actions during APFA's last contract.)
 
MQAAord said:
You can't "just go on strike". That's illegal. There's a whole process (per the RLA) that must be gone through to reach the point of a strike.
Click to expand...

I thought about this too. Just like firefighters, police and teachers just can't go on strike. Something about necessary personnel.

Another thought, I thought one of the airlines (maybe Southwest) was "owned" by the employees. If this is the case, can't the employees regulate/limit the CEO's salary?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm just trying to rap my brain around all of this.

MR.
 
mrambo,

Just as MQ said Pilots cannot just strike. The Railway Labor Act, originally of 1926, governs the workers of airlines as to their rights under a CBA (collective bargaining agreement). The RLA was originally established to protect an important part of America’s economy, growth, and transportation system. Later on in 1936 as the airlines began to emerge the law was modified to include this new national resource.

The RLA is designed to protect a rather important national asset however it has been a learning process for unions to learn its advantages and disadvantages. The following link is a copy of the RLA and will allow you to read through the sections of the law and do a better job than I can at explaining all the procedures, at least better than I can answer here.
http://www.nmb.gov/documents/rla.html

Unions are a large part of the airline industry and have, with regard to pilots, been a large part of the driving force to create legislation for safety conscious laws and regulations. As history has shown airline managements often forget that is employees are people and have invested much of their lives to the success of their company, managements come and go. Unions provide a legal means for employees to defend their opinions, wages, benefits, and professions.

A flow chart of how bargaining takes place under the RLA
http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/collbarg2.pdf

Some other useful links...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Labor_Act

http://www.ipapilot.org/media/rla.asp

Good Luck,

Paul
 
Thanks Paul,

I've learned more from your post than I did my whole 4 months spent working for "America's largest labor union".

MR.

PaulR said:
mrambo,

Just as MQ said Pilots cannot just strike. The Railway Labor Act, originally of 1926, governs the workers of airlines as to their rights under a CBA (collective bargaining agreement). The RLA was originally established to protect an important part of America’s economy, growth, and transportation system. Later on in 1936 as the airlines began to emerge the law was modified to include this new national resource.

The RLA is designed to protect a rather important national asset however it has been a learning process for unions to learn its advantages and disadvantages. The following link is a copy of the RLA and will allow you to read through the sections of the law and do a better job than I can at explaining all the procedures, at least better than I can answer here.
http://www.nmb.gov/documents/rla.html

Unions are a large part of the airline industry and have, with regard to pilots, been a large part of the driving force to create legislation for safety conscious laws and regulations. As history has shown airline managements often forget that is employees are people and have invested much of their lives to the success of their company, managements come and go. Unions provide a legal means for employees to defend their opinions, wages, benefits, and professions.

A flow chart of how bargaining takes place under the RLA
http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/collbarg2.pdf

Some other useful links...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Labor_Act

http://www.ipapilot.org/media/rla.asp

Good Luck,

Paul
Click to expand...
 
How much does it cost to "feed" the ALPA? Each airline could probably afford an additional CEO if ALPA were eliminated. . . from all the complaining, ALPA doesn't seem to be able to maintain wage levels, fix schedules, etc. . .

(running and ducking. . . again)
 
cre8flyer said:
How much does it cost to "feed" the ALPA? Each airline could probably afford an additional CEO if ALPA were eliminated. . . from all the complaining, ALPA doesn't seem to be able to maintain wage levels, fix schedules, etc. . .

(running and ducking. . . again)
Click to expand...


You pay alpa dues on a percentage of what your pay is....You are so wrong on so many levels.....Velocipede, Seggy, JTrain, Kell, Doug, any anyone else who is in the union (my carrier is a 135 operator and we dont have union) please educate cr8......

cr8 sit back and tune in, this should be fun......:D
 
cre8flyer said:
How much does it cost to "feed" the ALPA?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for ALPA but I believe most union dues are set at something like two to three percent of your wages.

In other words, it's cheap insurance from losing 100 percent of your wages if you don't have a union. Most employers without unions are at will, which means they can fire you for any reason they want and you have no recourse.
 
cre8flyer said:
How much does it cost to "feed" the ALPA? Each airline could probably afford an additional CEO if ALPA were eliminated. . . from all the complaining, ALPA doesn't seem to be able to maintain wage levels, fix schedules, etc. . .

(running and ducking. . . again)
Click to expand...


First off, you I REALLY REALLY REALLY have to get you Flying the Line Books I and II.

Secondly, if you want to pursue commercial flying ALPA will be part of your career. Don't knock it till you know the facts.

Thirdly, ALPA is 60,000 members strong. When you are talking about an organization of 60,000 people think budget the size of General Electric. ALPA has no where near that budget.

Fourthly to answer your question...

The best analogy to use would be similar to a tax bracket (he said the ALPA accountants HATE that analogy, but it is the best way to describe it so bear with me). The tax bracket is really top heavy though. You have the majors. FEDEX, United, CAL, DAL, NWA, ALASKA, putting more into the pot. Then it is divided into three parts.

The first part is local MEC, the second is ALPA national, the third is the National Contingency Fund.

FEDEX or any other major puts more into ALPA national than ExpressJet does. All of the regionals get back the money they put into ALPA national when because their budget needs are more than their members dues. He said a general rule is that a regional gets back all their members dues time two. Think your taxes (ALPA dues) back PLUS more from Bill Gates (the major airline pilots).

So when Skywest votes ALPA in, say the dues they collect are three million dollars. You would get that back from ALPA national PLUS another three million thanks to the top heavy dues.

I HOPE this clears it up. If you guys need individual people to call concerning the exact financing, who will be able to explain it better, please let me know. I have his permission to give out his number for questions to be asked.

1.95% is the best deal on ANY insurance policy out there!
 
MQAAord said:
Then, you have to hope that 'ole Bushy doesn't invoke a PEB. Cause, after all, the nation would disintegrate if a labor group at an airline went on strike. (Slight bitterness at Bush and his PEBs because of his actions during APFA's last contract.)
Click to expand...

The last pilot strike that a President stopped was the APA strike and it was 'ole Clintony. Those of us at ALPA were concerned until Al Gore contacted the national leadership and let them know that they wouldn't do the same thing for an ALPA strike because we had paid enough to get different consideration. That's another benfit of a national union, you can own more politicians.
 
And Edwards says he will not do the same thing that Clinton did.

Remember. . .find someone Pro-Labor. . .really Pro-labor.
 
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