AAPalmTree
Well-Known Member
I’m hearing grumblings from buddies. What’s the info?
Alaska/Virgin arbitration
- Thread starter AAPalmTree
- Start date
AAPalmTree
Well-Known Member
What does “no scope” mean exactly? Nothing keeping management from having Horizon flying 73’s?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Look pretty good? Are you serious?!
"None" means the current Section 1 of AS contract stays in place. I think there is wording that current 737s cannot be flown by Horizon/regionals and have to be operated by AS pilots. Anyway, ALPA proposal asked for a seat limit (76) and weight (86k lbs). Denied. Also had a snap-up provision to match whatever increase in scope that Delta and United would have in the future. Eg, if seat limit and/or weight scope increased at Delta/United it would increase at AS too. Denied.
alaskadrifter
Landing gear operator
As someone who would love to work for Alaska someday it’s concerning that there is no scope. What is the likely hood of negotiating scope during the next round?Look pretty good? Are you serious?!
"None" means the current Section 1 of AS contract stays in place. I think there is wording that current 737s cannot be flown by Horizon/regionals and have to be operated by AS pilots. Anyway, ALPA proposal asked for a seat limit (76) and weight (86k lbs). Denied. Also had a snap-up provision to match whatever increase in scope that Delta and United would have in the future. Eg, if seat limit and/or weight scope increased at Delta/United it would increase at AS too. Denied.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Absolutely garbage, morale has plummeted and there is zero goodwill among the pilot group towards the company. Folks feeling really shafted by the arbitrator considering we were only discussing three sections and they all went in the company's favor. Here's all you really need to know (made by a dude on our internal VX forum):
Red ALPA line was union position, orange ARB line is what we got awarded in arbitration today.
Red ALPA line was union position, orange ARB line is what we got awarded in arbitration today.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
I'm curious too.
So with no scope and that rule that only AS can fly 73's, does that mean more of their flying can be contracted out to regionals? I thought scope was a limit on how much flying the regionals could do for the company, pretty much job protection for mainline pilots.
That's how I interpreted it and wondered how the arbitrator could deny such a fundamental part of the contract?
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
I suspect it will be hard for everyone in SEA and LAX to look across the ramp and see they can make more after 3 years at Delta than 12 at AK and be based at home almost right out of class. Home town airline only helps recruiting so much. I bet they have a lot leave now. The people I know there are not happy and this was the kick they needed to update the apps.
B767
Well-Known Member
Zero dog in the fight. For wanting to fight Big Daddy D so hard in SEA, you kind of failed miserably in that contract. As @ClarkGriswold pointed out.
(You is not directed at any certain member, employee, or union representative. Strictly looking at management).
One simply does not have no scope clause (need a meme folks! Hurry up!)
(You is not directed at any certain member, employee, or union representative. Strictly looking at management).
One simply does not have no scope clause (need a meme folks! Hurry up!)
ShortField
No one of consequence
The arbitrators' reasoning was that AS has honored ALPA's requested restrictions historically without any contract language requiring them to do so.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That is one of the most BS arguments I've seen carry an arbitrators decision. That said, a case is often decided on it's individual merits and not what everybody else does, which is part of the reason it is always a role of the dice to take something in front of an arbitrator. With this decision in hand it is going to be incredibly expansive (as far as bargaining capital) for AS ALPA to attempt scope protections in their next contract too.
roundout
VNAV monitor
This is a nice idea, but
roundout
VNAV monitor
This is a nice idea, but just from my own personal experience I'm going to say it won't make the impact that we mere line pilots think it will. The uber-senior who haven't updated their logbooks in years aren't going anywhere. The most likely to leave are the junior, and, let's face it, they've probably been applying already.
I'd also like to nod my head to the Second Tier pilots of Spirit and Eff Niner whose pay rates are so low they don't even appear on the comparison chart.
CRJDriver
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, that is all easier said than done! Just because you work XyZ Major or (U)LCC doesn't mean DL/AA/UA/SWA will call you. I'm surprised they don't, because if they start poaching pilots from their biggest competitor and they have a hard time filling classes, I'm sure it would make a little dent in their operation.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Actually it would lower their competitors costs because they would have continuous turn over in a job where longevity is the only merit to a pay raise.
The smartest thing AA has done is hiring their flow thru guys to keep turnover high there and hire off the street military guys who bring their own insurance.
In fact if I were AA I would’ve made the flow a requirement, you must flow, and if you can’t get through probation at mainline you’re done.
I really don’t think guys will leave Alaska in droves over this. What a joke, failure to staff? Are you serious? How long is the line for any major carrier, even Spirit and Frontier?
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
If that were true everyone would work for Delta and United and no one else. Looking at that chart using your logic one has to wonder why any pilot steps foot into a jetBlue cockpit.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Looks like you got a $30-$40/hr raise for no reason other than merger...yet you complain?!?Look pretty good? Are you serious?!