Airline Scab Questions

MikeOH58

MikeOH58

Well-Known Member
Disclaimer - I'm not an airline pilot, and have no dog in this fight. Just interested in learning more!

So…For amusement, i've been spending a bit of time on another aviation forum with a heavy airline demographic. I got to reading about scabs. There is an absolute hatred of them. I've never actually seen or felt anger expressed over the internet as much as I do in reference to scabs. (Thats fine by the way, I understand they totally screwed the 121 side of the industry in the 80's).

Four Questions.

1- Is the anger and hatred real when face to face with a scab?

2- I see a lot of people talk about denying the jumpseat to scabs. Is it just limited to the cockpit jumpseat, or can the scab ride in the back? Does it make a difference if it's with the carrier you are employed by?

3- Truthfully. Is safety effected when flying with a scab? If you're so angry and have such a hatred for the scab, I have to think it's difficult to give 100% attention and focus to the job at hand. Distractions must be higher, and I can't help but to think from what I read on the other site that there are people out there that would try and get the scab violated in some way or form?

4- Hostile work environment….I see a common theme on the other site is people saying it is your job as a non scab to make the scabs work environment as unwelcoming and unpleasant as possible. Goal is to get them to quit. This begs hostile work environment, does it not? Have there been lawsuits?

I would have posted this on the other site but I think JC is far more professional and will actually get answers rather then chest thumping.

Thanks!
 
1) I once jump seated on a UA flight with a scab also jumpseating. I don't remember the exact details but I was going to get bumped and the scab approached me at the gate and offered to ride in the back if I gave him $20. So I did. I was on the jumpseat and the crew asked me about it and I told them the story. They were livid and the capt had words with the guy after the flight. I slithered out the jetway but the scab got some choice words in towards me on the way. This would have been in the early 90's. Anomisity towards scabs was very real. I think it all may have been tempered somewhat when Alpa "forgave" the CO pilot group and brought the back into the fold.

3). I don't think it's a safety issue. You do your job and they do theirs. Just no extraneous conversation.
 
DE727UPS said:
1) I once jump seated on a UA flight with a scab also jumpseating. I don't remember the exact details but I was going to get bumped and the scab approached me at the gate and offered to ride in the back if I gave him $20. So I did. I was on the jumpseat and the crew asked me about it and I told them the story. They were livid and the capt had words with the guy after the flight. I slithered out the jetway but the scab got some choice words in towards me on the way. This would have been in the early 90's. Anomisity towards scabs was very real. I think it all may have been tempered somewhat when Alpa "forgave" the CO pilot group and brought the back into the fold.
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Wow.

I've never run into a scab, as far as I know.
 
MikeOH58 said:
1- Is the anger and hatred real when face to face with a scab?
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Yes, from some pilots. A scab captain will sometimes go through flying an entire trip where the FO does not speak a word to him aside from required callouts. I've heard stories through the grapevine of CAL FOs telling jumpseaters not to talk to the captain because he is a "POS Scab."

MikeOH58 said:
2- I see a lot of people talk about denying the jumpseat to scabs. Is it just limited to the cockpit jumpseat, or can the scab ride in the back? Does it make a difference if it's with the carrier you are employed by?
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If a captain goes to the trouble of carrying a scab list he'll do everything he can to keep the scab off of his aircraft. Jumpseating with a seat in the back is still at captain's discretion.

MikeOH58 said:
3- Truthfully. Is safety effected when flying with a scab? If you're so angry and have such a hatred for the scab, I have to think it's difficult to give 100% attention and focus to the job at hand. Distractions must be higher, and I can't help but to think from what I read on the other site that there are people out there that would try and get the scab violated in some way or form?
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99.999% of the guys who are openly anti-scab are still professional enough to know what the job at hand is and how to get it done.

MikeOH58 said:
4- Hostile work environment….I see a common theme on the other site is people saying it is your job as a non scab to make the scabs work environment as unwelcoming and unpleasant as possible. Goal is to get them to quit. This begs hostile work environment, does it not? Have there been lawsuits?
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Almost all of the hostilities toward scabs occur behind a locked cockpit door. I don't know how one would provide much proof of anything that happens up there.
 
ERfly said:
United pilots to have "clickers", the same ones you train a dog with. When they'd fly with a scab, they'd click the checklist responses so that they didn't have to talk to him/her.
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That can't be real.

I don't care what your feelings are for a person, if they are qualified to occupy the seat you owe them at least a spoken response.
 
A reservist I used to fly T-38s with and who flies for a Legacy related this story to me:

He was jumpseating on another legacy, and stuck his head in the cockpit door before the flight for the customary asking-the-Captain-for-a-ride. When he was introducing himself to both guys, the Captain interrupted him as he was looking at/speaking to the F/O.

"Don't talk to him -- that guy is a <expletive> scab. If there's something you want to say to him, you can address it through me, okay?"
 
Here is what is probably difficult for those who are younger than me on here (which is probably damn near everyone), those who have never been through a strike or whose peers were involved in a strike, those who didn't live through what happened to many of the Majors during certain time frames in the past and how they were sold down the river from incompetence and greed, to understand/comprehend. Once you are a scab, you are a scab for life. Period. I don't give a crap about what ALPA says down the road about some of them (again for certain reasons/leverage/agendas as usual than what appears on the surface).

To cross a line says that you have no character, no morals, no values, no courage and no conscience. You are putting your own selfish desires/needs against those of your fellow co-workers who are putting everything on that same line for all of their co-workers in one clear and united front. You are condoning whatever behavior and issues the company has done/created to cause the strike.

No matter what issues you have with your union, (and most old dogs had them and for good reason), you cast that aside to stand up and walk the talk. We all carried The List. And we used The List.

There is no forgiveness, time heals all, b.s. about it. For the sake of your profession and the profession of your fellow pilots and employees, there is no forgiveness. Being a scab is/was a choice that you made to throw your fellow pilots and other employees under the bus and make sure that you got yours. Some pilots even chose that dark road than once in their careers. Their families, and their careers were more important to them than those of anyone else who had as much on the line, had as much to lose and gain and sometimes far more to lose and had already been concessioned to death over the years and worse. You have now completely dumped on the pilots who are out on the sidewalks, in front of their company's headquarters, at the airports, and in the terminals burning up the shoe leather, fighting for your damn rights when you couldn't care less about theirs.That's a huge affront and as a professional, you have disgraced yourself forever.

We simply returned the favor and in various ways, some of which have been mention in this thread. Karma is a bitch.
 
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esa17 said:
That can't be real. I don't care what your feelings are for a person, if they are qualified to occupy the seat you owe them at least a spoken response.
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No, you don't. (Yes you do because it's required)

Now if that's briefed, screw the scab.
 
A Life Aloft said:
Here is what is probably difficult for those who are younger than me on here (which is probably damn near everyone), those who have never been through a strike or whose peers were involved in a strike, those who didn't live through what happened to many of the Majors during certain time frames in the past and how they were sold down the river from incompetence and greed. Once you are a scab, you are a scab for life. Period. I don't give a crap about what ALPA says down the road (again for certain reasons/leverage as usual than what appears on the surface).

To cross a line says that you have no character, no morals, no values, no courage and no conscience. You are putting your own selfish desires/needs against those of your fellow co-workers who are putting everything on that same line for all of their co-workers in one clear and united front. You are condoning whatever behavior and issues the company has done/created to cause the strike.
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Lets tell the whole story here.

When the (Pick one from below) went on strike the Pilots union crossed their picket lines. They held news conferences denouncing the Flight Attendants strike. I've seen pilots fly planes until they broke when the Machinist Union was on strike. I know of pilots coming in on their days off to load baggage because the baggage handlers were on strike. I've seen ALPA pilots give press conferences saying the sky was safer than ever right in front of Air Traffic Controllers on the picket line. I've been on the picket line when airline pilot after airline pilot not only crossed the line but made snotty comments as they did so.
  1. Baggage Handlers
  2. Flight Attendants
  3. Mechanics
  4. Air Traffic Controllers
I for one have NEVER crossed a picket line. Not at the airport, at work or at the grocery store. It's just something I don't do.
 
ERfly said:
United pilots to have "clickers", the same ones you train a dog with. When they'd fly with a scab, they'd click the checklist responses so that they didn't have to talk to him/her.
Click to expand...

All I'll say is that from an accident investigation point of view, if I pulled a CVR from an accident flight in which one crewmember was failing to communicate verbally and resorting to some stupid clicker, I'd fry his ass in the report for that as a finding.

Worse, if said actions were contributory in any way to the accident itself, I'd double down on the above. If any aircrew didn't have the professional responsibility to put the safety of their passengers in back above whatever union/personnel issues they were facing, then they have absolutely zero business occupying that position. Period.
 
During PATCO all the controllers sadly, were fired two days after the strike began. Thousands upon thousands of flights were cancelled, as you well know. Pilots have also carried signs, attended rallies, signed petitions and picketed/walked alongside mechanics and FAs at various times (did it myself) even though the unions are completely different. What controllers didn't show up for work during a pilot strike? Just a few years back, pilots from several carriers all joined together to picket and walk in front of various airports and company headquarters (started by UAL) to make a statement because of outsourcing. Were there any controllers or mechanics or FAs there? No. I am not at all faulting controllers or any other aviation group at all. I have nothing but respect for controllers and the same for any cabin crew members or mechanics. What I am saying, is that FAs supported us in our strike to the best of their ability and limitations and we have often done the same. Different causes, different actions and different unions. Each group has their own issues and battles and only so much can be done by others. You can also lose your job and career by not showing for work under your own company's and union's rules if you are involved in another action/cause. What I am saying is that among the same group fighting for the same issue(s) if you cross that line, then yes, you are a scab. Once your union calls a strike, you never cross. Period. We could get into the ALPA pilots who crossed during the FEIA strike as well. ALPA was at the time doing everything in their power to oust their union and have the FE's join ALPA. This is what I mean by agendas/back stories and not something I agree with.
 
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MikeD said:
All I'll say is that from an accident investigation point of view, if I pulled a CVR from an accident flight in which one crewmember was failing to communicate verbally and resorting to some stupid clicker, I'd fry his ass in the report for that as a finding.

Worse, if said actions were contributory in any way to the accident itself, I'd double down on the above. If any aircrew didn't have the professional responsibility to put the safety of their passengers in back above whatever union/personnel issues they were facing, then they have absolutely zero business occupying that position. Period.
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I agree with you here, Mike. Not many pilots resorted to way over the top behavior in the cockpit with a flying pilot but certainly some issues/tension and behavior were there. Communications were often kept to a minimum at least. I have heard/directly knew of worse stories/treatments though, but these took place on the ground. And in any emergency or real issue with the aircraft, wx or whatever, I cannot imagine anyone continuing such behavior. Your own integrity, the care/well being/safety of your PAX, the crew and the aircraft take precedence.
 
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The people I know that have worked with scabs have very few kind words to say about them. Even describing some of the worst possible actions towards them. Just think of very extreme hazing. However, safety is always paramount and they've even told me that they give every day 100%, when flying with a scab they'll give it 200% "Because I'll be damned if a scab kills me."
 
Other than the two guys who flew that NK flight (one of whom makes a fairly decent case that he didn't realize what was happening) are there still any scabs left flying? You guys might as well be condemning anyone who trashed Comiskey during Disco Demolition night it was so long ago.
 
The irony is delicious, you must sample some.

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