Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wants

CRJDriver

Well-Known Member
Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets `Nobody Wants'

The 50-seat jets once prized by carriers such as Delta Air Lines Inc. are being culled from U.S. fleets as higher fuel and maintenance bills make them too expensive to fly.

By 2015, U.S. airlines will have about 200 jets with 50 or fewer seats, down from about 1,200, said Michael Boyd, president of consultant Boyd Group International Inc. in Evergreen, Colorado. More than 80 have been scrapped in 2010, he said.

“These are litters of aluminum kittens -- nobody wants them,” Boyd said. Their only value is for recycled metal, he said. “The next stop is the Budweiser factory because that’s all they’re good for.”

Delta’s Comair unit underscored the turnabout with its Sept. 1 move to get rid of three-fourths of its 50-seaters after pioneering their use in the 1990s. Regional jets flew about twice as fast as turboprops, and crude oil at about $20 a barrel made them affordable to operate.

The drawback was spreading costs over about a third as many seats as in a Boeing Co. 737. With oil averaging $77.93 this year through Sept. 2, up 39 percent from 2009, airlines favor regional jets that can carry 70 or more people and fly less often, or new turboprops.

Comair’s move to shed 53 Bombardier Inc. CRJ-100 and CRJ- 200 jets is a “defining moment on the long road to 50-seat oblivion,” said Richard Aboulafia, an analyst at consultant Teal Group in Fairfax, Virginia.

‘Look Awful’

“The economics are awful, especially in a time of high fuel prices,” Aboulafia said. “It makes sense if you’re focused on market share, hub preservation and other really outmoded concepts. But if you’re focused on profitability, then 50-seats begin to look awful.”

Comair President John Bendoraitis told employees in a memo this week the Cincinnati-based carrier needed to “dramatically change course” with steps that include chopping the fleet to 44 planes by 2012. Before cuts in the 2008 recession, the total was 131. Comair’s oldest CRJ-100s average 14 years old, according to Ascend Worldwide Ltd., adding to maintenance expenses.

U.S. passengers and airlines embraced regional jets when Bombardier and Empresa Brasileira de Aeronautica SA entered the market in the 1990s. Use of models with 50 or fewer seats peaked in 2007 at 1,420, up from 110 in 1997, according to London-based Ascend, which compiles fleet data.

‘Far Too Fast’

“The growth in this aircraft type was far too many, far too fast,” said Douglas Runte, managing director at Piper Jaffray & Co. in New York.

More-comfortable turboprops such as Bombardier’s Q400 and airline labor contracts favoring bigger regional jets helped erode the one-time advantages of the smallest planes, he said.

Embraer and Montreal-based Bombardier are now selling or planning models able to carry more than 100 people, part of what Bombardier predicts will be a $393 billion global market for jetliners with 100 to 149 seats in the 20 years ending in 2029.

Bombardier and Embraer, based in Sao Jose dos Campos, Brazil, have gained 16 percent in the past year. Runte said a recent auction of used 50-seat jets posted sales of less than $3 million each for planes appraised for as much as three times that sum.

“With profits being as thin as they are, the cost of operating those airplanes is something that has to be overcome with high levels of traffic,” said David Swierenga, president of consultant AeroEcon in Round Rock, Texas. “We haven’t seen that.”

Comair’s Future

Delta sold regional subsidiaries Mesaba and Compass to Pinnacle Airlines Corp. and Trans States Holdings Inc., respectively, in July. A Comair spokeswoman, Kristin Baur, said Atlanta-based Delta continues to study options for Comair. Delta said a review was under way before its 2007 bankruptcy exit.

In June, American Airlines parent AMR Corp. said it would evaluate possibly divesting its American Eagle unit, whose 218- jet fleet consists mostly of Embraers with 50 or fewer seats.

Passengers probably won’t lament the vanishing of the smallest planes. The overhead bins typically can’t handle roll- aboard luggage accommodated on bigger planes, and window seats can seem cramped because of the curvature of a narrower fuselage, according to travel website SeatGuru.com.

“You feel like a sardine, and forget about trying to open your laptop and getting any work done,” said Pete Luttmann, a salesman at technology firm Dolphin Corp. in Cincinnati.

Luttmann, 47, estimated he flies 60 to 70 times a year, mostly on regional jets. “It’s very claustrophobic.”

If oil prices remain in the $75 per barrel range and businesses continue to be conservative with travel budgets, the retirement of 50-seaters may accelerate, said consultant Boyd.

“The small-jet airplane era is over because the economics simply are not there,” Boyd said. “They couldn’t make money with $50 oil, and they sure as heck can’t make money at $75 oil. The only people who love these 50-seaters are the chiropractors who have to fix what they do to peoples’ backs.”


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...ll-50-seat-jets-nobody-wants-.html?cmpid=yhoo
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

If CAL's scope holds, then the analysis behind this goes out the window.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

The Boyd Group has some of the clearest and correct insight in the industry.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

“You feel like a sardine, and forget about trying to open your laptop and getting any work done,” said Pete Luttmann, a salesman at technology firm Dolphin Corp. in Cincinnati.
The 200s can be pretty bad, that's true. But on the other hand, I think ERJs and Brasilias which both have the same 1-2 configuration are awesome. The plush leather seats in the Xjet ERJs are some of the most comfy I've ever sat in. Even Gulley agreed with me when we flew on one last summer.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

Jobs getting cut sucks. But isn't getting rid of these things good for the collective industry?
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

I think he's right. I think the 50-seater is a dying breed. There was a time when there was great demand for these airplanes, but they're just not economical anymore.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

Jobs getting cut sucks. But isn't getting rid of these things good for the collective industry?

I'd think so. There's plenty in the crowd who believe "Regionals are the new Mainline", however. Maybe my dreams will come true and mainline will take it all back.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

Yay bigger mid-size jets and T-props with the same pay.:mad:
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

I suppose its too much to hope that phasing out the 50-seaters and flying bigger airplanes will equal more pay for the crew. Too bad for the Comair furloughs, too. I have a buddy who was supposed to be next in line for recalls last week!
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

1. More expensive per seat mile, but less expensive per leg. If a route won't support an RJ or a turboprop the passengers may not be happy with the alternative. Can you say Greyhound?
2. Airlines probably overextended on the RJs, but we probably won't see them go away for many routes. Like I said above, less expensive per leg. After all, if we only went by cost per seat mile every route would be served by a 777. Granted, on routes were you see a bunch of RJs you may see them eliminated in favor of a 737. The flip side is that the customers will have one or two flights a day instead of the multiple flights they enjoy. This will also result in longer "airport appreciation days" at hub airports for pax making connecting flights as they will be forced to leave their origination earlier to make the connection.
Sorry, the days of mainline flying to such places as Albany, GA are not coming back.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

Sorry, the days of mainline flying to such places as Albany, GA are not coming back.

Maybe the days of flying the Jetstream 31 or Beech 1900 to Albany, GA are coming back though...

I suspect you were right. Much less frequency to small or midsize towns but run by larger aircraft. Hopefully the majors are successful in their bid to scope that flying which is, at the end of the day, better for everyone. I like the CRJ-700 a whole lot better as the most junior aircraft at Delta than as the flagship of the fleet at Comair. ;-)
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

Maybe the days of flying the Jetstream 31 or Beech 1900 to Albany, GA are coming back though...

I suspect you were right. Much less frequency to small or midsize towns but run by larger aircraft. Hopefully the majors are successful in their bid to scope that flying which is, at the end of the day, better for everyone. I like the CRJ-700 a whole lot better as the most junior aircraft at Delta than as the flagship of the fleet at Comair. ;-)

If it is not competative in cost people will not pay for it... they will drive.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

If it is not competative in cost people will not pay for it... they will drive.

Speaking as someone who lives in the middle of nowhere (four hour drive to the nearest "big city", six to a hub) -- I will pay for the convenience of flying and I can all but guarantee that the business travelers in this region will do the same. Let the market decide what is competitive.

Maybe Albany Georgia is close enough to Atlanta and Lancaster PA is close enough to Philly to drive but there are plenty of midsize markets in the US where driving is not an efficient option. Time is precious.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

Speaking as someone who lives in the middle of nowhere (four hour drive to the nearest "big city", six to a hub) -- I will pay for the convenience of flying and I can all but guarantee that the business travelers in this region will do the same. Let the market decide what is competitive.

Maybe Albany Georgia is close enough to Atlanta and Lancaster PA is close enough to Philly to drive but there are plenty of midsize markets in the US where driving is not an efficient option. Time is precious.

I live in the Southwest US where distances are... well, vast. Most people in this area will compare the cost of airfare to the cost of driving. Yes, if business is involved they may take an airplane; but most non-business travelers will end up driving unless the flight is cost effective for them. I agree that the market will determine what will happen, but the assumption that 737s will replace RJs on all the routes is silly.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

I live in the Southwest US where distances are... well, vast. Most people in this area will compare the cost of airfare to the cost of driving. Yes, if business is involved they may take an airplane; but most non-business travelers will end up driving unless the flight is cost effective for them. I agree that the market will determine what will happen, but the assumption that 737s will replace RJs on all the routes is silly.

zap said:
Maybe the days of flying the Jetstream 31 or Beech 1900 to Albany, GA are coming back though...
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

I'd think so. There's plenty in the crowd who believe "Regionals are the new Mainline", however. Maybe my dreams will come true and mainline will take it all back.

There's nothing regional about the CRJ7 or 9. Or, looking at it the other way, one could call the D95 "regional". Who cares? Says mainline on the side...

At the risk of being laughed off the boards, I don't care what size the airplane is, mainline should operate it if it says Mainline on the side and carries mainline passengers with mainline tickets—I don't care how many seats it has. 50 and 70 seaters? Sure. Put them on the property.

That's the dream, I just don't know how to achieve it.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

Not saying that I disagree with the sentiment of Boyd's overall statement, that the 50-seaters are not "popular" or economical.....but I have a hard time believing that they will be a "thing of the past" that soon.

Should they go away, maybe, in some markets, some routes. However, there are a lot of markets that won't economically support 70 to 90 to 100+ aircraft at any time.

So, my thought is that the 50 seaters will stay around....and for quite some time.

I could be wrong.
 
Re: Airline Era Ends as Carriers Cull 50-Seat Jets Nobody Wa

There's nothing regional about the CRJ7 or 9. Or, looking at it the other way, one could call the D95 "regional". Who cares? Says mainline on the side...

At the risk of being laughed off the boards, I don't care what size the airplane is, mainline should operate it if it says Mainline on the side and carries mainline passengers with mainline tickets—I don't care how many seats it has. 50 and 70 seaters? Sure. Put them on the property.

That's the dream, I just don't know how to achieve it.

Won't happen. It would require mainline pilots giving something up today for something in the future. Some of the arguments I have heard:
1. I don't want to fly a small jet.
2. My squadron mates would never agree to fly a small jet.
3. The company would have to pay us so much that it would not be economical.
4. Me do more than two legs in a day???
Personally I think the best way to achieve it (which will probably never happen), would be for a pilot group to shift from a three tier based compensation system (aircraft size, longevity, seat position), to a two tier based compensation system (longevity, seat position), as found on some foreign carriers. Would probably reduce costs for the airline (as pilots would have one less incentive to jump from one aircraft to another), and pilots might find they actually like it as their decision on what aircraft to fly would be based more on quality of life than money. Airlines would also have one less factor to figure in when determining the best airplane for a route. Of course I also have dreams of making the NY Giants as a wide receiver... from the guy who still wakes up at night in a cold sweat from a dream that I'm back in college, on the line of scrimmage, the quarterback calls an audible, and I have no idea what it is.
 
Back
Top