Aircraft Down in Angelina County, TX (C-421 KIWS-KRVS)

T

tomokc

Well-Known Member
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20121127_11_0_WLSeaA236943
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N67SR

The Tulsa World is reporting this morning that a Tulsa Riverside-based Cessna 421, flying from Houston to Tulsa, crashed around 9:22 p.m. Monday night in east Texas, with witnesses describing a "bright fireball falling" from the sky. The FlightAware track appears to show the aircraft climbing to around FL210 before encountering a line of storm in/around Angelina County where it crashed.

Not to speculate about the cause of this particular accident, but I always dread the holidays a bit because so many GA pilots fly family members around the country, sometimes encountering "get-home-itis" and bad weather at the same time.

RIP.
 
My best friend (non-pilot) lost some co-workers to a corporate accident where a 421 tried to cross a thick line and ended up breaking up. Is there something about that aircraft that makes pilots push the boundaries a bit more?
 
As a controller nothing makes me curse a pilot more than a ga guy trying to push his way through weather. I will go blue in the face fron describing the weather trying to get them to go a different route....just to have them to either fly through it and report severe turb...or drive up to it and in a panic request vectors around.

We have had quiet a few go down due to weather in the past couple years. Please be smart out there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
 
Bummer. RIP

Murdoughnut said:
My best friend (non-pilot) lost some co-workers to a corporate accident where a 421 tried to cross a thick line and ended up breaking up. Is there something about that aircraft that makes pilots push the boundaries a bit more?
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Nothing more than radar, which most all cabin class aircraft have. Whether the unit works is another story.
 
BWER said:
As a controller nothing makes me curse a pilot more than a ga guy trying to push his way through weather. I will go blue in the face fron describing the weather trying to get them to go a different route.
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Thank you for doing that. You're not the only one - FSS guys also lose their patience with clueless GA pilots.

I was about to fly OKC-MGN years ago in a Duchess over Labor Day weekend, and right before startup the FSS briefer described unexceptional weather along the route. I filed, started up and called FlightWatch after leveling off for a wx update.

Briefer (seeing a wall of convection blowing up to FL400 along the Ohio River valley): "Exactly what weather briefing did you receive to make you think you could complete this flight today?" He assumed that I launched blind, and kept me waiting while he verified that I actually received a briefing in the previous 60 minutes while the line unexpectedly materialized. Heaven help me if I hadn't.

RTB.
 
BWER said:
I will go blue in the face fron describing the weather trying to get them to go a different route..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
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I appreciate that. It makes a difference, you know. I tell you from experience.
 
I was flying from Austin to Dallas last night around 8pm when that line got its act together. I was happy things worked out in my favor to not have to pick through that. It was a pretty nasty squall.

RIP


Sent from my iPhone
 
Murdoughnut said:
My best friend (non-pilot) lost some co-workers to a corporate accident where a 421 tried to cross a thick line and ended up breaking up. Is there something about that aircraft that makes pilots push the boundaries a bit more?
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I'm going to guess the fact that they are in the flight levels they think they can get around the stuff easier. Also probably don't know how to use the on-board radar so they use the wonderful 15+ minute old nexrad on their GPS to try and get around stuff.

This would likely pertain to an owner operator more so than a pro-pilot, but a pro-pilot is not exempt.
 
RIP.

Thoughts and prayers with the families involved in this tragedy.
 
tiredcfi said:
Correct. However, one can penetrate wx safely given the proper tools/experience.
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I am not at all being facetious or obnoxious when I ask you:

What tools?
What techniques?
How does one gain this experience?

I ask because all of my reading thus far says "don't fly in major WX conditions."
 
killbilly said:
I am not at all being facetious or obnoxious when I ask you:

What tools?
What techniques?
How does one gain this experience?

I ask because all of my reading thus far says "don't fly in major WX conditions."
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You didn't learn to fly just by reading did ya? It's nice to have experienced guys fill you in on the do's and dont's. But most of all you need to fly it yourself. You can't walk unless you try. Just don't go in the red stuff. It gets bumpy.

Side note. I'm much more conservative with pax on board.
 
Techniques- slam seat down and turn up ur lights...

All joking aside very sad story and RIP I'll always take the vector because of the fisher price radars we have
 
killbilly said:
I am not at all being facetious or obnoxious when I ask you:

What tools? Good, working, on-board wx radar.
What techniques? Don't penetrate wx with tops to FL700, go as low as possible, don't golfball airplane.
How does one gain this experience? Fly freight.

I ask because all of my reading thus far says "don't fly in major WX conditions."
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killbilly said:
I am not at all being facetious or obnoxious when I ask you:

What tools?
What techniques?
How does one gain this experience?

I ask because all of my reading thus far says "don't fly in major WX conditions."
Click to expand...
I'm only just starting to get experience with this stuff, but I was in that crap last night. Like what tiredcfi says, use your radar, get low, use ATC assistance, and maintain vmc if you can. The worst turbulence is in the mid levels - 10,000 to 20,000.
 
ackeight said:
Just don't go in the red stuff.
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I think you might want to re-think that technique. There are several reasons why that one could kill you one day.

Heavy snow and hail don't reflect as much energy as rain will and developing thunderstorms can contain killer turbulence before it contains heavy precipitation that will reflect enough energy to show red. This is just a couple of reasons off the top of my head.


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Most people don't really know how to use a weather radar. A radar can attenuate showing the most intense part of the storm as black. This has killed many a pilot.
 
killbilly said:
I am not at all being facetious or obnoxious when I ask you:

What tools?
What techniques?
How does one gain this experience?

I ask because all of my reading thus far says "don't fly in major WX conditions."
Click to expand...

There are tons of tools and using them all will give you an accurate picture. On board radar, ATC, and the good ole eye ball are what I am given to use. Nexrad is nice in addition to on board radar, but I would not use it as a sole means of navigating around storms as the data can be 15+ minutes behind at times. A lot can change in that small amount of time.

You can get a general rundown on how to use the tools, but until you start using them and experience the weather you wont 100% understand. Obviously the best way to get the experience is to fly with someone that knows what they are doing and learn from them.

When it comes to squall lines you just have to know when to say "no". If you are heading toward the face of the storm you can always land ahead of the storm and wait for it to pass over.
 
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