Air Cargo Carriers Info?

The problem as I see it is that, systemically, that strategy doesn't work. It's the old Race To The Bottom. If there are no repercussions for what amounts to negative income to claw your way in to the job you actually want, flying airplanes will become a job only for the children of the Rich (already happening, from what I can tell). I'd prefer it to be a job for the talented, interested, and predisposed.

Whatever the case, if some fool ever accidentally puts me in charge of hiring, you can be 100% sure that I won't be hiring anyone who has ever worked for slave wages to "get ahead". I want to hire professionals who respect themselves. They make better employees. *shrug*
 
Hacker15e said:
I know a good number of guys who fly for their 'career destination' majors who followed that strategy, and are in fact the ones who recommended it to me.

Again, the root purpose behind that strategy is to not miss out on paychecks you would otherwise be getting while waiting for something else to come along that may never happen. Since "it's only business", for the most part pilots are free to drop out of training or quit when they please in order to go accept offers at better companies when they do show up.

Obviously, when using this strategy, it's important to know about things like training bonds that can keep you from effectively execute it.

If having a paycheck isn't as important as holding out for just the right job (or if there are other factors), then obviously there's no point in using that strategy.
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I understand your strategy and think it's valid, and clearly works. I never said hold out for a job and not work, clearly that isn't a viable option unless, you have a sugar momma or your parents pay your bills.

My advice is to network and talk to as many people as you can. Eventually one of those leads will pay off.
 
It never fails to amaze me that obviously intelligent people will hire hucksters to save a few bucks. "So they'll (provide sexual services for money) themselves to pad the logbook, but they'd NEVER put me or my family on an unsafe aircraft so as not to 'rock the boat'!" After all, they're Professionals! Anyone who will lie, cheat, or steal to get ahead will lie, cheat, or steal to stay ahead. You can take that to the Bank. Actually, a Bank would probably be exactly where they belong.
 
Boris Badenov said:
The problem as I see it is that, systemically, that strategy doesn't work. It's the old Race To The Bottom. If there are no repercussions for what amounts to negative income to claw your way in to the job you actually want, flying airplanes will become a job only for the children of the Rich (already happening, from what I can tell). I'd prefer it to be a job for the talented, interested, and predisposed.

Whatever the case, if some fool ever accidentally puts me in charge of hiring, you can be 100% sure that I won't be hiring anyone who has ever worked for slave wages to "get ahead". I want to hire professionals who respect themselves. They make better employees. *shrug*
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You and me both.
 
Boris Badenov said:
It never fails to amaze me that obviously intelligent people will hire hucksters to save a few bucks. "So they'll (provide sexual services for money) themselves to pad the logbook, but they'd NEVER put me or my family on an unsafe aircraft so as not to 'rock the boat'!" After all, they're Professionals! Anyone who will lie, cheat, or steal to get ahead will lie, cheat, or steal to stay ahead. You can take that to the Bank. Actually, a Bank would probably be exactly where they belong.
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HA!
 
Erik1010 said:
Were you held up at gun point and forced to accept the job? You live and you learn, now i guarantee you'll never accept a job that allows such little time off.
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My comment was more directed at the fact that 5/2 is "bad". Seems to me that most of america works a 5 day work week and 2 days off per week, and yet pilots will still complain about it. Pilots are the biggest bunch of complainers there are (myself included).
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
My comment was more directed at the fact that 5/2 is "bad". Seems to me that most of america works a 5 day work week and 2 days off per week, and yet pilots will still complain about it. Pilots are the biggest bunch of complainers there are (myself included).
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The "standard" work day (outside of flying) is normally an 8 hour day, 5 days a week. Once you fly airplanes, you get to do 14-16 hour days, 5 days a week. :bang:
 
tiredcfi said:
The "standard" work day (outside of flying) is normally an 8 hour day, 5 days a week. Once you fly airplanes, you get to do 14-16 hour days, 5 days a week. :bang:
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Oh I know. I'm just saying, the grass is always greener somewhere else. At least people in the 121/135 world have flight time limitations. 5 of my last 7 flights have been north of 8 hours of flying, single pilot.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
My comment was more directed at the fact that 5/2 is "bad". Seems to me that most of america works a 5 day work week and 2 days off per week, and yet pilots will still complain about it. Pilots are the biggest bunch of complainers there are (myself included).
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OK, well you need to compare apples to apples here. my schedule is 13/8 (which I enjoy), however, I can still be on the road away from family for nearly two weeks. The average American works 9-5 M-F. Pilots work all hours of the clock, there is no 9-5 for pilots.

Sure, we complain (some more than others), but I guarantee 9/10 wouldn't trade their job for a paper pushing job or cubical.
 
I interviewed on a Wednesday and was 'furloughed' (class cancelled) on the following Friday. They never bothered to call me back when they started hiring again.

A friend of mine worked there for a few years and was actually terminated for some remarks to either an assistant chief or the chief pilot. He didn't have a lot of good things to say about the operation other than he loved flying the airplanes.
 
Sounds like the atmosphere at ACC is a lot different--read: more humane--now than it apparently was a few years ago. The work is the same: 5 nights/week; Same route every night; Load the freight on UPS runs (for $12.50/day additional pay); Fly through--not over--the weather; The only glass in the flight deck is in the windows. The work is hard and the hours are long, so suck it up or apply elsewhere.

One year $7,500 non-pro-rated training contract from day of check ride. Same at upgrade.

The pros: Large (26,000lb +); Turbine-powered; Multi-engine; Two-pilots-required; Type-rating; No ATP required; CASS; Traditionally-short upgrade--the junior guy in next week's upgrade class was hired last November; ATP available at upgrade; Home every day; Weekends off; Reimbursement of up to $500 of your expense to travel to interview/training; "SIC type rating" in initial training.

Nothing to complain about in that list, especially if you're a 1,000 hour CFI--what's the MGTW of a Seminole again? This is where you learn to fly IFR, boys and girls. Hand flying, every night, all weather. Makes you a very sharp instrument pilot.

During intitial training: $45/day x 7 days/week per diem; Housing; Car and gas.

Upon assignment to first base following intital and upgrade training: 14 nights company-provided lodging + reimbursement for unused nights.

FO pay: 1st year salary + per diem = $26,780. 2nd year--who cares?--we have almost no 2nd year FOs because they've mostly upgraded.

CA pay: 1st year salary + per diem = $43,000. 5th year--I know, you'll be long gone by then--$53,500.

Pay figures above include per diem. Line pilot per diem is fixed @ $45/day, 5 days per week. Remember: per diem is not taxed...

Mileage pay for additional flying; Happens ocssionally, more in some bases, less in others.

Current bases: SJU; MIA; IAH; SFO; ASW; DNV; LCK; MDT; CRW; BKW; SAV; MYR; SBO; MKE.

Daily flight time ranges from 1.5 to 4.5, depending upon run.

Total pilots 45. Hiring is as-needed. Have hired ~20 in the past 12 months, expect to continue at that pace to pace attrition. Effect of the new ATP requirement for 121 operators remains to be seen. Since we are 135, it will probably improve the quality of the applicant pool, but may result in increased Captain attrition. Getting the interview call is largely a matter of timing: Frequent updates keep your stuff near the top of the pile. Apply directly with the company @ human.resources@aircar.com.

Minimums: 1,000TT; 50ME; 2nd class; Passport; RTOP; Good attitude; Professional demeanor; Convince us that you want to work here. Competitve times vary with applicant supply and may increase as the effects of the ATP rule begin to be felt.

Some people look at ACC and see something to complain about. I just see opportunity...
 
The poor bastards on the SFO-MHR run get to sit in the DHL warehouse for about 10 hours on their layover because ACC won't provide a car or housing. Sounds awesome.
 
Inverted said:
The poor bastards on the SFO-MHR run get to sit in the DHL warehouse for about 10 hours on their layover because ACC won't provide a car or housing. Sounds awesome.
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Because I live in one of those cities... and used to live in the other... it wouldn't be so bad... but I'd only be interested in the left seat so I guess I shouldn't apply... lol.
 
Living in the city on that pay, then having to sit in hot ass sacramento all day with no way to get food would really suck though.
 
When I first started in home construction my employer told me to not accept low paying jobs, even in dry times. The disclaimer was if the job was short in duration or the dry time was becoming too long. His reasoning was acceptance of a low paying job would interfere or outright prevent him from accepting gravy jobs. Doncha know, every time he accepted a low paying job the gravy jobs would pop up. Juggling can be difficult.

While in construction it is more difficult to abandon a low paying job than in aviation, still there are disadvantages to be found in jumping around in aviation.

Addressed to Boris' comments, fools have a penchant for making mistakes. Say you do saddle up with a fool and you do find yourself sitting on the other side of the table, I would like to hear your response to this: What is the difference between a guy who takes one of those unsavory positions and the guy who buys his own aircraft to build some hours? In either case, it is money out of his pocket. In the former he has shown motivation and the drive towards his goal. In the latter, he has taken a more "safe" route. In this case, "safe" applies to not putting at risk his standing in the "small community" which is commercial aviation.
 
Inverted said:
Living in the city on that pay, then having to sit in hot ass sacramento all day with no way to get food would really suck though.
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Same could be said for the IAH-AUS pairing they run... If it were me I'd bring a hammock to string up in the plane... Nap, play my guitar, read, fart, etc... Open up all the hatches and it shouldn't be too bad.
 
gclarkv said:
Some people look at ACC and see something to complain about. I just see opportunity...
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I call it shady. They still mix the pay and the per diem to sell you on the job. Per diem is not pay. That means the pay is well below standard.
 
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