AI and Automation

K

karkland

Well-Known Member
As AI and automation seems to be the hot topic in every single industry worldwide, how do you see it affecting dispatchers? I know many in Europe use Lido and don’t seem to have as many dispatchers as in the US. Could that possibly happen everywhere else soon enough?
 
karkland said:
As AI and automation seems to be the hot topic in every single industry worldwide, how do you see it affecting dispatchers? I know many in Europe use Lido and don’t seem to have as many dispatchers as in the US. Could that possibly happen everywhere else soon enough?
Click to expand...
I'm going to quote multiple ASI's on the subject:

"Operational Control can only ever be exercised by a human being."
 
I predict the number of DX'ers per shift be reduced greatly and the roll of dispatcher will be more of a System Monitor while the Flight Planning Programs do all the flight planning & releasing. The DX'er will be there just to watch the AI do all the work.

This is why we need PAFCA, ALPA and the other Unions representing us in congress when they (the accountants) try to eliminate the requirement for dispatchers.
 
karkland said:
As AI and automation seems to be the hot topic in every single industry worldwide, how do you see it affecting dispatchers? I know many in Europe use Lido and don’t seem to have as many dispatchers as in the US. Could that possibly happen everywhere else soon enough?
Click to expand...
I don't see it making financial sense to even attempt to replace the majority of what we do. Takes billions to train these supposed near-AGIs, while a fully staffed dispatch office costs millions even at a major. And even by their own metrics, the best ones still make • up half the time and are wildly incorrect in stating their own accuracy. They'll nibble around the edges for sure, but reality and regulation will keep the job around for quite some time yet.
 
I can see single pilot cockpits happen before dispatchers going away. There will always be a need for someone on the ground to have operational control over each flight that is not ATC. With that said, will AI introduce new advanced flight planning capabilities that will see a shift in job functions? Most definitely.
 
Also, comparing the North American model to the European is apples to oranges. Their “dispatchers” aren’t doing nearly what we’re doing here. Our jobs are also written law, unlike over there.
Europe is slowly going towards our model vs the opposite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Cost cutting automation will be required by shareholders given the precarious nature of the business. US airlines rarely turn profits on aggregate.
 
flyingpotato said:
Cost cutting automation will be required by shareholders given the precarious nature of the business. US airlines rarely turn profits on aggregate.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but history has shown us that, no matter what the industry, business will always implement technology to increase productivity and to save money. One example is the auto industry, where robots have displaced thousands of workers. Robots can do more, do it better, and do it cheaper. Not only that, they don't take breaks, complain, or call out sick. Yes, they break down now and then, but they still earn their keep.

Better yet, look at the airlines over the years. Back in the day, airliners had a flight crew of four: pilot, copilot, flight engineer, and navigator. As technology advanced, the navigator went away. Technology advanced some more, and the FE went away as well. Flight crews have been cut in half, and with increasing technology, they may be cut in half again.

To put it another way, AI is having a far reaching impact an everything and everybody. A study in South Korea showed that AI will eventually eliminate 70% of doctors and 70% of lawyers. We're talking advanced professions here! If AI has the potential to eliminate all those doctors and lawyers, what else does it have the potential to eliminate?

Will DX be eliminated? In the near term, no. However, as with everything else, AI will impact DX, and the job will change. How much? When? Who knows? But AI will change DX, and it will do so in ways not yet foreseen.
 
Last edited:
A-9er said:
If AI has the potential to eliminate all those doctors and lawyers, what else does it have the potential to eliminate?
Click to expand...
Ultimate aim of AI is to replace all white collar jobs. This is according to industry leaders like Sam Altman, leader of Open AI, who advocates for humans to prioritise emotional connections/labour, which AI and other technologies fundamentally cannot have. The very nature of mindless humdrum work is anathema to them. For the short term, fear of replacement will be used to squeeze out additional productivity gains and concessions from the labour force, while in the long term balancing consumer spending from a reduced labour force. Augment rather than replace is the game now. And it's not necessarily bad.
 
Last edited:
A-9er said:
A study in South Korea showed that AI will eventually eliminate 70% of doctors and 70% of lawyers.
Click to expand...
Studies before a technology matures about its potential impact are generally not worth the paper they're printed on. We don't know what AI could be capable of if they ever manage to get it to be trustworthy, because that doesn't exist yet. For all we know, it's impossible with the resources on our planet, or impossible to achieve at scale because of the sheer cost. Most of the rhetoric around "AI will replace us all" is based on a general assumption that AI will continue to get more powerful ad infinitum when actually there is little reason to believe that's true.
 
A-9er said:
Not only that, but history has shown us that, no matter what the industry, business will always implement technology to increase productivity and to save money. One example is the auto industry, where robots have displaced thousands of workers. Robots can do more, do it better, and do it cheaper. Not only that, they don't take breaks, complain, or call out sick. Yes, they break down now and then, but they still earn their keep.

Better yet, look at the airlines over the years. Back in the day, airliners had a flight crew of four: pilot, copilot, flight engineer, and navigator. As technology advanced, the navigator went away. Technology advanced some more, and the FE went away as well. Flight crews have been cut in half, and with increasing technology, they may be cut in half again.

To put it another way, AI is having a far reaching impact an everything and everybody. A study in South Korea showed that AI will eventually eliminate 70% of doctors and 70% of lawyers. We're talking advanced professions here! If AI has the potential to eliminate all those doctors and lawyers, what else does it have the potential to eliminate?

Will DX be eliminated? In the near term, no. However, as with everything else, AI will impact DX, and the job will change. How much? When? Who knows? But AI will change DX, and it will do so in ways not yet foreseen.
Click to expand...
Was this comment written by AI?
 
I think it's only a matter of time.
One change to the way the regs are written and it's all over.
Every union should be focused on getting automation/AI language in their next contract... it should be a bigger priority than pay.
Answer honestly.... what would be a more accurate flight plan?
One planned by you with no assistance from any kind of technology (You have to interpolate winds and temp aloft, calculate fuel burn, figure out optimal altitudes on your own, etc)? Or one planned with nothing but computers and AI?
 
FXCO said:
I think it's only a matter of time.
One change to the way the regs are written and it's all over.
Every union should be focused on getting automation/AI language in their next contract... it should be a bigger priority than pay.
Answer honestly.... what would be a more accurate flight plan?
One planned by you with no assistance from any kind of technology (You have to interpolate winds and temp aloft, calculate fuel burn, figure out optimal altitudes on your own, etc)? Or one planned with nothing but computers and AI?
Click to expand...
"Operational Control can only ever be exercised by a human being."
 
DeltaJulietTango said:
"Operational Control can only ever be exercised by a human being."
Click to expand...
Sure, so a master dispatcher with assistance of AI dispatch agents. 121.533 language does not rule out this possibility, and that's without tweaking the language. This is exactly the type role NVIDIA envisions as ripe for AI augmentation. As previously mentioned, cost cutting up to the legal limit is a no brainer for shareholders.
 
DeltaJulietTango said:
"Operational Control can only ever be exercised by a human being."
Click to expand...
You have that in quotes. May I ask what you’re quoting?

Regs can easily be rewritten. I’m sure a lot of flight engineers once thought they were safe as well. Operational control can easily mirror what most of the world does without dispatchers involved.
I’m not advocating for it, but I think it would be foolish to operate under the assumption that we’ll always be safe, or that it’ll take long enough to finish your career first, unless you’re already in your sixties.
There’s truly not a ton that can be done, which is why I think contractual language is among the best of what limited options there are.
 
I agree AI will have an effect but will it be able to read a weather map

1734054033525.png
 
FXCO said:
You have that in quotes. May I ask what you’re quoting?

Regs can easily be rewritten. I’m sure a lot of flight engineers once thought they were safe as well. Operational control can easily mirror what most of the world does without dispatchers involved.
I’m not advocating for it, but I think it would be foolish to operate under the assumption that we’ll always be safe, or that it’ll take long enough to finish your career first, unless you’re already in your sixties.
There’s truly not a ton that can be done, which is why I think contractual language is among the best of what limited options there are.
Click to expand...
I'm quoting a Dispatch SME ASI I have spoken to on this subject. (I had questions about what we were being told about Cleared to File at NetJets...and this was the exact quote from the ASI who came in to observe...I honestly wish I could remember his name.)

Also AC 120-101 is fairly specific where A008 is concerned.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top