AGAIN!!

christina3hunt

New Member
I swear this one guy in ATC hates me!! I've only been out of KIWA for 2 weeks and I have had to call the tower twice to talk to the same guy?? Am I really that bad of a pilot?? Ha! Today I got cleared to taxi via Yankee and Hotel back to the ramp. Well when I look up I see an aircraft coming toward me on the same taxiway. So I stopped and held, I was a second away from keeing on the mic to see if they were to hold for me or if I was to hold for them?? I've been in situations before where ground got busy and didn't notice that there were two aircraft coming together on the taxiway. (Especially at KFFZ.) Well before i got to say anything the ground controller comes on the radio yelling at me!! "N12345 if I tell you to taxi you better start rolling, now stop and hold for traffic if you are not going to go!!!" WOW!! So I told him that I would hold for traffic. Then he told me to call the tower when I shut down. Oh great not again!! This is just so frustrating to me and makes me scared to do anything at this airport, I cannot believe how he yelled at me like that over the radio. That was definitly not neccessary!! If I am pilot in command of my aircraft and I see an aircraft taxing toward me and I have not been made aware if they will be holding for me or not, then I am going to hold and confirm that they will be holding.

Sorry I needed to vent that!!!
 

docflyer

New Member
What did the controller say when you called him? Did he have a different perspective on how things happened?
Yeah it sucks, learn from it and move on, but don't let it get you down.:)
 

Number1atNumber2

Tries to keep it fun.
Tell him to mark the tape next time he gets mouthy, then you can bring it up with the tower manager if you like. Just be absolutely sure you are in the right if you elect to do that.

YOU decide how to operate YOUR aircraft and if something comes up that you believe will compromise safety, do what you need to do first, THEN let them know. Remember: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate - in that order.

In general I think it's a bad idea to argue with ATC, but don't be afraid to stand your ground if you make a safety decision and they start screaming at you.
 

christina3hunt

New Member
GRRR!!! I am frustrated, but I am trying to act like a girl about it!! Haha. But, I have never faced someone in ATC like this. I just don't know how he has gotten this far in his career acting like this. I have heard him talk to others this way also. I just don't think it is right. This is supposed to be a training environment and now my student is scared of the radio!!
 

whysoserial

New Member
Well, not that you or him did anything wrong, I think you just threw a wrench in his plan is all. No big deal since he should have an out anyway but controllers like to see plans play out the way they were "planned". At least I do, especially on ground. Anyways, what I generally say to people if they are head on or it looks like they will hit is "xxx, taxi to blah via blah...the Cessna is holding for you." Or something like that. If he had said that, there wouldn't have been a problem since you would have already known what the other guy was doing. At the same time however, he expects you to do what he said regardless.

You can't get in trouble for this. You are PIC, he's silly for getting worked up over it. If I had people call everytime they botched a taxi instruction...uh...I would have a lot of calls.
 

Clocks

Well-Known Member
He's got a problem. You are not required to taxi into a situation you think is wrong no matter what the controller thinks.

I would definitely make sure you enroll in some kind of pilot legal aid program (like AOPA's), then do what they tell you to do and don't spend 1 second longer on the phone than you have to. "I'm not prepared to talk about the situation at this time, I'm filling out a NASA form and contacting a lawyer", and give him your name/information. You're not required to listen to him chew you out about a crappy taxi instruction he gave. If he's just rubbing his ego on the phone there's no reason to get upset. Just hang up and follow the advice of your AOPA counsel.

I would definitely seek legal advice to see what you are required to do, and not put up with any crap on the phone unless your counsel says you should. He's a freaking controller, not a police officer who just pulled you over, and not God Of The Universe (i.e. he's just a person like you, nothing special).

Sounds like the type of person who gets off on being in charge and making sure everyone knows it. I bet he would be a perfect TSA agent.

For reference, the above is basically exactly what our union tells us to do:
[FONT=&quot]If you are involved in a deviation and given a phone number to call, you are not required to call the facility. If you do call the facility out of courtesy, do not discuss any specifics surrounding the incident. You can give your name and pilot certificate number, but politely tell the controller or supervisor that you are not prepared to discuss the event and that you will fill out an ASAP report. This will prevent you from making any statement that may be incriminating.[/FONT]
I'm not interested in talking to a controller about a situation which may come back to bite me. In addition I don't care if a controller thinks I'm right or wrong, I'm not interested in using my own time to listen to it, and have no personal need to prove myself right. I will take my chances that (if they press the issue) my union + ASAP (same concept as NASA forms) will resolve the situation better than I could have on the phone.

So long story short...get legal counsel then follow their instructions. Hopefully they'll tell you to stop calling the tower. Just remember to stay professional on the radio no matter what.
 

aloft

New Member
Just a :yeahthat: to the posts above.

There are some controllers out there who make a habit of trying to usurp your authority as pilot in command. As PIC, you are the FINAL authority as to the operation of your aircraft, and sometimes ATC forgets this. As the others have said, it's important to stand your ground. If ATC tells you to do something you don't think is prudent, just say "unable".
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
Don't forget what/who you are. You are responsible for your student and for the expensive piece of metal you're flogging around. Controllers are not Gods. Never let one talk to you like you are stupid/dumb. As long as you act as a professional and do everything you think that is right then don't worry about it.
I believe that when I called the guy I would have to take an attitude with him and inform him that I will continue to do what I think is right when/as necessary.
Is this a contract tower?
 

PilotChip

Air Traffic Controller
Yes it is a contract tower...

HAHA! DUH they think they can do whatever they want. Then they give FAA controllers a bad name because of their newbie mouths.

Did the controller even use proper phraseology?

"(Callsign), possible pilot deviation. Advise you contact Mesa tower at ###."
 

christina3hunt

New Member
HAHA! DUH they think they can do whatever they want. Then they give FAA controllers a bad name because of their newbie mouths.

Did the controller even use proper phraseology?

"(Callsign), possible pilot deviation. Advise you contact Mesa tower at ###."
I wasn't deviating anything I was just holding to see what traffic was going to do and I was about to ask ground if that traffic was going to hold for me. I just think he wanted me to call to clarify what happened and chew me out some more. I just okay said mmhmm alright will do. I mean what else am I supposed to do? Argue with him??
 

scooter2525

Very well Member
just say you were taxing... reallllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyy slowly. heheh but for reals, smart move on working on avoiding an accident. depending on when you noticed the other aircraft, if you thought it could have been an issue, slow down and call at the same time and that might prevent you from having to stop all together.

"bla bla ground, cesnna 321, should i hold short for oncoming traffic" errr something like that.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
HAHA! DUH they think they can do whatever they want. Then they give FAA controllers a bad name because of their newbie mouths.
I don't know if it's changed, but Willie Tower used to be one of the nicest facilities I've ever worked with. I agree in general about contract towers, but not in this case. Granted, that was 4 years ago, so they could very well have changed.

Where is your CFI in all of this?
Um... She is the CFI.
 

meritflyer

Well-Known Member
How would this constitue a 709 ride?? That's ridiculous.
Your repeated pattern of ATC 'issues' is the problem.

All I know is from your posts, I see a whole lot of finger pointing and uncertainty on your end when you're supposed to be an instructor. This is two incidents in what, a week? You don't find that to be potential red flag?
 
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