Advice

Edwin,

For helicopters, check out BOATPIX as a time-building option. They threw rocks at it here (because it "quacked" like PFT in their opinion), but those with better knowledge of the helo industry felt differently on threads at justhelicopters.com and verticalreference.com (2 threads there...one under general topics, one under flight training). Call Tom at boatpix if you want. He can refer you to plenty of people who are doing just fine with boatpix time.

(I didn't get that private message you mentioned, by the way)
 
AWESOME! Good to hear from you newbie and most of all when it's a positive point. Thanks for the info and I'll be sure to look at it as soon as possible.
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Newbie,

Boatpix IS PFT. Period. I eal with them up here. Find out what you're talking about before you go trying to piss in people's Wheaties by having people asking for opinions, and then discarding the opinions. Boatpix gets revenue for flight instruction and for the pics. It creates hardship for people doing it the LEGAL way. Okay, so Boatpixs found a loophole or something, it doesn't make it right. Instead of paying a pilot for the position they are taking away from the jobs offered to pilots. Period.

You can do what you please, but don't go to another thread and disregard numerous people's viewpoints because you don't agree with them.
 
Txpilot, instead of throwing a tantrum, maybe you could contribute something productive to our collective understanding of the helicopter industry. Or if Doug prefers (which I would understand), maybe you should contribute to the discussion of the program at a helicopter industry-specific site (verticalreference.com).
 
Knock it off!

Disagreeing with an individual is one thing, but continually antagonizing is another, newbie.

You have something to say... say it.

Otherwise, ENOUGH with the smart@ss responses.
 
Newbie,

Okay, let's talk about the helicopter industry. Let's see, there's a legitimate operator out of Newport State that pays taxes, tie-downs, slip-and-fall insurance, etc. in Newport, RI, and operates out of Newport, doing scenic operations within the regulations, picture flights, and sells pics that he takes with his helicopter when he doesn't have anybody in the helo (read no instruction given). He pays a guy to ride in the helicopter and take pics while he's at the controls. He has somebody down on the ground answering phones/scheduling during the busy season.

Boatpix: Guy (or gal) pays $100/hour for instruction and/or time building. Friend/copilot takes pictures of boats, etc. then they sell these pics on their web site. Then they switch sides, or somehow both log time?!? No payment to RI for taxes, tie-downs, rental space at airport, slip-and-fall insurance required of everybody operating offices at airport, etc. School/company based in FL, but has aircraft up here more than in FL, competing with business based up here.

In other words, PFT killing legitimate business. If you have such a profound insight of Boatpix, please tell me where I misinformed. Where am I so off on this? I am not saying there shouldn't be any competition up here, just make it fair and don't cost people their jobs.

If I am misinformed, please let me know. That is my understanding of Boatpix. If I am incorrect, please inform all of us.

Sorry it took so long, been flying!
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Newbie,

This is the helicopter industry guys supporting Boatpix? [ QUOTE ]
Now, under their OLD program - I don't think it was very good (you'd fly with a CPL), and I did NOT fly with Boatpix then. However, they've merged Boatpix with Helicopter Academy flight schools and every Boatpix opportunity is with a CFI / CFII. The flying is fun, challenging, and a definate learning experience. I wouldn't build ALL my time with Boatpix , but it is a great and inexpensive way to add hours when you need to.

[/ QUOTE ]

And having a student pilot support your opinion ins't much better.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know Tom, but I did meet two of their pilots recently. They were young, but had their stuff together. One had already accrued about 400+ hours and had just begun his training in January. Now, I am still a student , but in my personal opinion, this kid really did handle the machine well, as well as about anyone I have ever seen.

The down side to it, is you are just burning hours. Although you are doing Photoflight work, I think you miss some of the stuff I personally love, like confined area and pinnacle landings.

Honestly if I could swing it, I would probably do the same to build Commercial time too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I work with a helo pilot every day so yes I know a little about it. I am not a helo pilot, but I know PFT when i see it. And the other helo pilots in the area hate Boatpix, but if that's what makes you happy, go for it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
If I am misinformed, please let me know. That is my understanding of Boatpix. If I am incorrect, please inform all of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Txpilot, my attempts to inform in this forum only seem to enrage folks, so I'll simply invite you over to the helo forums to discuss the matter with everyone in them. It's really a more mature and polite crowd, anyway.

R2F, I did have something to say to Edwin, and I did say it. As for smart@ss, antagonistic comments...I don't have a monopoly on those around here.
 
Newbie,

Go back to your helo forums and stay there. I'm not sure why you're trying to get a fight started between helo pilots and fixed wings, but the more mature person will do their research before trying to instigate fights.

How many forums did you try to get to fight with JC?
From Justhelicopters.com (Posted by Hard.):
[ QUOTE ]
See it here. An airline guy is saying it's worthless time. Look under the "Is This PFT?" threat at:

http://www.jetcareers.com

[/ QUOTE ]

From VerticalReference.com (Posted by Bat) You posted in two different sections here:
[ QUOTE ]
I posted this in the flight training section too...but redundancy is a good thing, too.
[ QUOTE ]
The BOATPIX program is getting slammed by airline pilots over at http://www.jetcareers.com

The thread there is titled "Is this PFT"? (Pay for Time). They're saying that BOATPIX time is not only worthless, but also harmful to your career (i.e. gets you put on a hiring blacklist, basically). Does anyone know if that's true? Would anyone like to post a rebuttal to them there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Airline pilots on this website (below) are saying that BOATPIX time is not only worthless, but also harmful to your career (gets you put on a hiring blacklist). The thread is called "Is this PFT?" The website is http://www.jetcareers.com

Does anyone know if this is true? If it's not, would anyone care to get on that site and rebut their statements?

[/ QUOTE ]
That's some good support you have there...I assume this was you:
[ QUOTE ]
Can somebody maybe from the ACTUAL helicopter industry go in there and tell them they're wrong about BOATPIX being "WORTHLESS" time???????

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am from the helicopter industry and yes, it is WORTHLESS time. You can't tell me that student is getting quality one on one flight instruction flying around in the HV curve taking pictures. It's ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very mature people:
Referring to fixed wing pilots:
[ QUOTE ]
Like anybody had a high regard for them to .......(NT)

[/ QUOTE ]
Just general banter (I inserted the astericks)
[ QUOTE ]
Your a di**weed.........

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No,"You're a di**weed," is proper. It is a contraction of 'you' and 'are.' "Your a dickweed," sounds like an Italian indicating possessiveness of a dickweed.

[/ QUOTE ]
And somebody that actually came and found out what we're talking about:
[ QUOTE ]
The airline guys aren't bitching about the quality of the time. They're bitching about the fact that it's taking a job away from another potential pilot (and thus makes its participants scoundrels...and damages their careers). Any truth to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong Bat, getting hot under the collar?
[ QUOTE ]
Does it get you "blacklisted" with other operators who'd hire you later, though? I don't want to do something that blacklists me, but I also don't want to refrain from something just because a bunch of airline jocks say it will get me blacklisted...you know?

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also...if it blacklists you, why do the whirlygirls endorse it?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because Bat, they are the ones making money off of you. Read our posts.


Newbie, please don't take this the wrong way...GET LOST!!!
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Don't try vilifying me with helo pilots, I am not a jet jockey (yet
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), and I get along with most people as long as they don't try a smear campaign against people trying to help pilots, whether they are fixed or rotary wing.
 
I was amazed he was trying a total smear campaign against us for giving advice. Go figure. Some people never learn.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why you're trying to get a fight started between helo pilots and fixed wings, but the more mature person will do their research before trying to instigate fights.
.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an interesting characterization / observation. It made me really stop and think, because it showed me the huge gap between my actual intent and your perception of it. Really, I (and I think Edwin too) have been attempting to research the complexity and nuance of this subject (in both the fixed and rotary wing contexts), but somehow, in this forum (and yes, on justhelicopters.com, too...but not on verticalreference, it seems) that attempt death spirals almost instantly into a strange personal and vicious fight. The time it takes to go from "research" to "fight" here is really quite amazingly short...complete with yelling, threats, and all sorts of odd emotion. It's largely my fault, I suppose, for being a contrarian and not just accepting everything I'm told without question (even from experts and insiders...and so-called philosophers too). Actually, most people here seem generally able to discuss things like rational adults (especially in private), but I guess it only takes a little twist from a few to start the death spiral in the public discussions (exhibit A...this very thread itself
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)

Anyway, I'll humor you and restrict myself only to private conversations here from this point forward. That's where I'm getting the best feedback, thought, and analysis so far anyway. Blue skies to all!
 
Newbie,

If your intentions are to purely research your options and learn as much as you can, then I apologize. However, from what I have seen, as you can tell from my post earlier, it seems you went to every rotory wing site and said we were picking on helo pilots, trying to get them to come over here and argue with us. Look at what you posted and tell me differently. Tell me how the helo industry is...please inform us. I'm waiting.

[ QUOTE ]
Txpilot, instead of throwing a tantrum, maybe you could contribute something productive to our collective understanding of the helicopter industry. Or if Doug prefers (which I would understand), maybe you should contribute to the discussion of the program at a helicopter industry-specific site (verticalreference.com).



[/ QUOTE ]
This statement here is where I say the "spiral" started. if I took it wrong, I apologize. However, when you have numerous people saying the same thing and then you say
[ QUOTE ]
Edwin,

For helicopters, check out BOATPIX as a time-building option. They threw rocks at it here (because it "quacked" like PFT in their opinion), but those with better knowledge of the helo industry felt differently on threads at justhelicopters.com and verticalreference.com (2 threads there...one under general topics, one under flight training). Call Tom at boatpix if you want. He can refer you to plenty of people who are doing just fine with boatpix time.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course Tom is going to show you a couple of people that are doing good under his program. Ask him how many have left aviation altogether because they became so disenchanted with the reality of no job, and no hopes of a job because they sent out resumes and nobody wrote them back. I wonder why. I have showed you people on your own web sites that you referred us to that said the opposite.

Is this not what we've been saying?
[ QUOTE ]
Uhhh... what would an airline pilot know about the helicopter industry? NOTHING! The usual path to success is PPL < CPL < CFI < CFII < instructor for 1000 hours or more < ATPL (maybe) < fly for Temsco or other operator < pick your discipline that you want to fly in after that. Your first step is to teach (usually). I haven't heard of any schools turning away pilots that have built time with BoatPix.

Now, under their OLD program - I don't think it was very good (you'd fly with a CPL), and I did NOT fly with Boatpix then. However, they've merged Boatpix with Helicopter Academy flight schools and every Boatpix opportunity is with a CFI / CFII. The flying is fun, challenging, and a definate learning experience. I wouldn't build ALL my time with Boatpix, but it is a great and inexpensive way to add hours when you need to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get out and earn your hours. There are no shortcuts. I certainly hope you are learning from PM's because you're just arguing with everybody here, and those helo pilots are telling you the same thing. Good luck in this industry.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I was amazed he was trying a total smear campaign against us for giving advice. Go figure. Some people never learn.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not what you say, but how you say it. Going over to another website and bashing this one there (in addition to calling the members immature) is not the best way to be a "guest at someone's house", ala a member of this website. I would suggest if you have questions to ask, do so without making it a personal vendetta against everyone here.

Just my $.02
 
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