Advice Needed from My Peers

jwp_145

jwp_145

GhostRider in the Sky
So I need a bit of advice on a decision that has to be made quickly. I would greatly appreciate your input in helping me make it...

Here is my situation:
I am a CFI/CFII/MEI, around 1400 TT with a 4year degree in aviation(I know...). After a few bad job choices I am now back at square one in the flight instructing world.

I am currently enrolled in OSU's Mechanical Engineering Program and it will take me approximately 3.5 years to finish and my first semester starts in January. I have all of the financial aid in place(loans, grants, scholarships, tuition waivers, etc...) and will probably have to borrow a total about of 20K maximum. I currently have 40K in student loans from my flying.

I am teaching classes at the local community college and will be flight instructing while I go to OSU Tulsa for the mech eng.

So my question is: Do you think I should go for the engineering degree or should I apply to go to a regional instead? I know the industry is hiring again and I want to get in on the list quickly so that I can build a decent amount of people below me in seniorioty in preparation for the next oscilation of our industry's wave.

If I get my engineering degree, I can go into things like flight test, have a more stable career than i would as a pilot, and would be able to pay off my loans much easier. Also once I become an engineer I still very much plan on flying(instructing, ferrying, etc).

I've always dreamed of being an engineer, but it just took me a while to believe in myself that I could actually succeed at it, which happened about 6 months ago.

Also has always been my dream to be a pilot of something significant.

So the question: Engineering Degree, or Regional Airline?

Discuss.
 
Just my $0.02.... Just because the regionals are hiring does not make them a good place to work.

What have been your aviation goals up to this point? Have you always wanted to go the airline route (i.e. regionals) or have you wanted to do something else (corporate/charter/whatever)? If your dreams have been to fly for a regional then I would say go for it. Put in your application and see what happens. If you want to be an engineer, then go back to school and fly on the side.
 
dc3flyer said:
Just my $0.02.... Just because the regionals are hiring does not make them a good place to work.

What have been your aviation goals up to this point? Have you always wanted to go the airline route (i.e. regionals) or have you wanted to do something else (corporate/charter/whatever)? If your dreams have been to fly for a regional then I would say go for it. Put in your application and see what happens. If you want to be an engineer, then go back to school and fly on the side.
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Corporate or private/owner owned has always been my main goal... heck even if it is just a P210 or a Cirrus I would like that better than airline flying. And I agree when you say that just because they are hiring does not make them a good place to work.
I never let money influence my career decisions(well, to a responsible degree that is), so I'm ot getting into engineering for the money... that part is just an added benefit.
 
So my question is: Do you think I should go for the engineering degree or should I apply to go to a regional instead?

I stopped reading the OP at that sentence. Go for the degree. Even if you wanted to make a career in aviation. Many pilots have degrees in multiple disciplines.
 
If you're really interested in mechanical engineering, than now is probably as good a time as any to be back in school. I wouldn't worry too much about seniority and missed opportunities at the regionals. There's really not a whole lot to be missing out on, is there? I certainly don't think so...

The pay for mechanical engineers is pretty decent (expect about $55k/yr or so in 2010 dollars). Getting a job after graduation is typically not too hard, although right now it can be challenging. My brother graduated with a Chem Eng degree last year (good school, with honors) and is still looking - although until recently he was confining his search to the Denver area.

Pay advancement is ok, but generally you won't see much above 3-6%/yr raises. To break six figures, you'll have to get into management, and you will most likely be working significantly over 40 hrs/wk. Some people are ok with that, and in fact I knew several who saw this as a very worthy goal.

Engineering is definitely a decent place to make a somewhat stable, middle class income. But after doing it for six years (I was a ME working in aerospace and utilities), I determined it wasn't for me (for a variety of reasons) and became a pilot. Still, I am glad I have an engineering degree and have found it useful in my professional aviation career on several occasions. Employers like it, and systems/performance classes during training events will always be a breeze for you. At my current job, I've been promoted to DOM (Director of Maintenance) due to my engineering background. So it definitely won't hurt if you decide to get back into flying again at a later date.

Good luck, and feel free to PM me any other questions you might have.
 
RICHARD5 said:
So my question is: Do you think I should go for the engineering degree or should I apply to go to a regional instead?

I stopped reading the OP at that sentence. Go for the degree. Even if you wanted to make a career in aviation. Many pilots have degrees in multiple disciplines.
Click to expand...

I'm getting mine in Business Admin. Nothing to do with my career path, but it can be used in many different ways. Exactly why I chose to get a business degree over something more focused.
 
Whatever choice you make, make sure you have a good plan for how you are going to get to where you want to go, which requires you to also have a good, clear goal in mind. You are going to owe 60kish if you finish your degree. You may have to bite hard on a pencil to not just jump straight into a low paying flying job if the market is wide open at that point. 3.5 years from now, there will likely be A TON of hiring going on, so it helps to have will power...unless you are cool with getting the degree and not using it.

If you elect to keep flying, pick the job that will give you the best combination of skill development and QOL. Don't necessarily take a 1.5 TT/day flying job near your best location if you want experience and don't jump without looking if you have a chance to fly 1400 hours a year in the last place you'd want to live. You can also do some school online, but that takes a little "gear shifting" to make happen.
 
Are you doing your ME as a BS or MS? If you already have a BA or BS I'd recommend stepping up to the MS if possible. Depending on what your "Aviation" degree entailed you might have to do some catching up in math and physics, but it is doable. My department (Meteorology) managed to get someone with a BA in Art History through the MS program, which is heavy on math and physics (fluid dynamics, radiative transfer, thermo, clouds/cloud processes, etc).
 
Don't listen to us.

What do you want to do.

What do you think you should do.

What can choices can you live with.

Your answer lies between those three issues, and nobody here will ever be able to tell you what the answer is. You're a smart guy, you know what you need to do.
 
jtrain609 said:
Don't listen to us.

What do you want to do.

What do you think you should do.

What can choices can you live with.

Your answer lies between those three issues, and nobody here will ever be able to tell you what the answer is. You're a smart guy, you know what you need to do.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I must say being an engineer is a great profession. But just like pilots people think it is out of this world! You tell someone your a pilot for an airline and thy're usually impressed..you know the job is cool..but the reality of it, is it sucks (in terms of QOL its not what most think). Engineering is stable, good pay, but if you really want to fly do you want to give up the airline or charter goals you have?

I'd say go to the regionals..its true the (QOL) isnt the best..but its a stepping stone to your dream corporate job. That is if you want to fly for a living. If you would rather be an engineer, then that's totally different. Guess what I'm saying is, if you really want to fly, making a sacrifice at the regionals will more then likely pay off if you pursue other opportunities that will open.

My father is an electrical engineer. Worked for American Airlines, and is now working at Boeing, wheres hes been for the past 14 years. Worked on the space shuttle for 12 years, and now more recently on the flight line. He likes his job, but he has also expressed how "It's nice to work with the airplanes, but it not like landing a 777!

If you want to fly id say regionals..at least for right now, youll make the big bucks soon. If you would rather just fly on the side go for the degree.
 
falconvalley said:
Whatever choice you make, make sure you have a good plan for how you are going to get to where you want to go, which requires you to also have a good, clear goal in mind. You are going to owe 60kish if you finish your degree. You may have to bite hard on a pencil to not just jump straight into a low paying flying job if the market is wide open at that point. 3.5 years from now, there will likely be A TON of hiring going on, so it helps to have will power...unless you are cool with getting the degree and not using it.

If you elect to keep flying, pick the job that will give you the best combination of skill development and QOL. Don't necessarily take a 1.5 TT/day flying job near your best location if you want experience and don't jump without looking if you have a chance to fly 1400 hours a year in the last place you'd want to live. You can also do some school online, but that takes a little "gear shifting" to make happen.
Click to expand...

Also agree.
 
falconvalley said:
Whatever choice you make, make sure you have a good plan for how you are going to get to where you want to go, which requires you to also have a good, clear goal in mind. You are going to owe 60kish if you finish your degree. You may have to bite hard on a pencil to not just jump straight into a low paying flying job if the market is wide open at that point. 3.5 years from now, there will likely be A TON of hiring going on, so it helps to have will power...unless you are cool with getting the degree and not using it.

If you elect to keep flying, pick the job that will give you the best combination of skill development and QOL. Don't necessarily take a 1.5 TT/day flying job near your best location if you want experience and don't jump without looking if you have a chance to fly 1400 hours a year in the last place you'd want to live. You can also do some school online, but that takes a little "gear shifting" to make happen.
Click to expand...
QOL is more important to me than money... that being said, my QOL will be terrible without sufficient monies, so I must find a balance. My idea of QOL is not sitting in a crashpad in Newark.

casey said:
Are you doing your ME as a BS or MS? If you already have a BA or BS I'd recommend stepping up to the MS if possible. Depending on what your "Aviation" degree entailed you might have to do some catching up in math and physics, but it is doable. My department (Meteorology) managed to get someone with a BA in Art History through the MS program, which is heavy on math and physics (fluid dynamics, radiative transfer, thermo, clouds/cloud processes, etc).
Click to expand...
I've already looked into that possibility, but at OSU the MS for the ME program has a prereq as a BS in ME

jtrain609 said:
Don't listen to us.

What do you want to do.

What do you think you should do.

What can choices can you live with.

Your answer lies between those three issues, and nobody here will ever be able to tell you what the answer is. You're a smart guy, you know what you need to do.
Click to expand...
I thought you were going to law school?

Mainly I asked you guys because I was wanting someone to say "Hold off on the regionals, you aren't missing much right now, and by the time you are done with your ME degree there will be more hiring."
I realize this could be 180deg different from what may actually happen, but that is what I'm suspecting too.

I'm going with the ME Degree. I'd already had my mind made up, but I just wanted some affirmation from someone other than my mother :D
 
I'm going to go against the grain and say go try to find a flying job (not necessarily at a regional). There are a lot of places where you can work on a degree part time. It's hard, but becoming more commonplace. The reason I say this is you already have a degree. Yes, aviation degrees arent that valuable outside of this industry. And they certainly aren't a necessity to get a flying job, but as much badmouthing goes on around here about them, a lot of people on here who are rather successful. I'm not saying they're all they are cracked up to be, but there are still a lot of companies that like them because they know what there're getting. I know I'll take some heat for this, but I've had three jobs in this industry and two out of the three interviews were made easier because "you went to UND, you know what you're doing". Unless you want to bail on the industry, or find a flying job that incorporates the engineering degree into it, I would say at this point in time picking up the additional debt is not worth it. If you want to get into flight testing , you're going to need a lot more experience than instructing can give you. If you just want a flying job with an owner/op or part 91, the engineering degree won't really be needed IMO. Maybe sometime down the road when it doesn't include tacking it onto your current debt?
 
jwp_145 said:
Mainly I asked you guys because I was wanting someone to say "Hold off on the regionals, you aren't missing much right now, and by the time you are done with your ME degree there will be more hiring."
I realize this could be 180deg different from what may actually happen, but that is what I'm suspecting too.

I'm going with the ME Degree. I'd already had my mind made up, but I just wanted some affirmation from someone other than my mother :D
Click to expand...
The regionals will always be there for you... I think they will be more tolerable in a few years. I dropped out of college and built the Beech Starship for a summer and semester, and while that was fun, it was all the motivation I needed to go back and finish my degree. If you need to take a break from school, you could go fly for a regional for a year, and have plenty of motivation to finish your degree. Fly when you can and enjoy the ride. Life is looking up for you congrats.
 
WRXpilot has been kind enough to PM with me about what his engineering jobs were like. During our conversation, this is what I emailed him concerning how I would ideally like my career to go:
"Well here would be my ideal existence... During my ME studies I will continue to flight instruct/teach class. Upon graduating, I'd like to get a job at an airframer as an engineer, such as Beech or Cessna. That will get me in the door and then I can get in to flight test or into their training department, work my way up through the product line to the high-end corporate jets. After i get a fair amount of TPIC, move to Boeing as an engineer while moonlighting on the side as a pilot for a private jet. Work my way up the ladder through Boeing into flight test/delivery, drawing on my experience and flight time from the Cessna job."

I realize the above paragraph may be a pipe dream, but I believe that it is realistic and achievable. From your differing amounts of experience, do any of you believe that is a reasonably attainable goal? Keep in mind that I'm not using this jetcareers forum as the deciding factor in my life's decisions, I'm just trying to get some input outside of my family and school counselors.
 
jwp_145 said:
QOL is more important to me than money... that being said, my QOL will be terrible without sufficient monies, so I must find a balance. My idea of QOL is not sitting in a crashpad in Newark.


I've already looked into that possibility, but at OSU the MS for the ME program has a prereq as a BS in ME


I thought you were going to law school?

Mainly I asked you guys because I was wanting someone to say "Hold off on the regionals, you aren't missing much right now, and by the time you are done with your ME degree there will be more hiring."
I realize this could be 180deg different from what may actually happen, but that is what I'm suspecting too.

I'm going with the ME Degree. I'd already had my mind made up, but I just wanted some affirmation from someone other than my mother :D
Click to expand...

I am.
 
i only read a few responses, but tend to agree with those who say don't listen to us.


Seriously, I've never understood why people ask "what should I do with my life?" I can understand when people ask for information, like: what is the quality of life like when employeed as xxx. Or, how much should I expect to make in an entry level position in xxx. But - the big difference between your question and these examples is that the examples are both subjective and concrete points which help you make your own, informed decision.

We can supply information, but like a pilot in command, make your own darn decision given the facts before you.
 
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